Solid B from me. Love that they fortified the trenches. Love that they traded down in 2 after identifying Carman as their guy, recognizing that he would be there later. I think we got a couple of good players in the later rounds. Only real negative is that, if they had taken Sewell in 1 (biggest need, IMO), it would have opened up the draft, allowed them to take BPAs in the later rounds -- e.g., Ojulari in 2 to replace Lawson instead of Ossai in 3; Dyami Brown in 3, etc. But after going Chase, I'm relatively happy with how the rest of the draft played out.
(05-01-2021, 11:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I’m saying is I’m not dinging the Carman pick as much because they got Ossai. What I meant was if the picks had been reversed, people wouldn’t be as upset.
I don’t consider it an A because I felt there were guys in multiple rounds available I would have taken instead, but they got done solid players.
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Agree, what is nice is we traded back adding 2 more picks and still got the same players...
(05-01-2021, 11:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think with the players added, this is a 7-9 win team. I don’t think this team competes for a playoff spot.
That’s not dogging the team though, as it’s still an improvement from last year.
Maybe I don’t have enough faith in Pollack, but he wasn’t exactly stellar when he was with the Bengals in 2018.
I think the offense will be in the upper teens to low 20s. I think the defense will be in the same range.
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Taylor needs to be replaced if we only win 7 games and lose 10.
In my opinion, we need to make the Playoffs this year and win a Playoff game for him and company to stick around and
we need to look good doing it. No more excuses. 10-7 and a Playoff win at the very least or move on.
(05-02-2021, 12:33 AM)Mobster Wrote: We got three immediate starters:
Best WR in the draft
Best G in the draft
Best kicker in the draft
A couple guys who can help with the pass rush, then some more depth on both lines.
Carman may have been the steal of the draft. Much better prospect than some of these other linemen who fans were discussing in round 2. Could've gone in round 1.
Best Guard was Vera Tucker but yeah, Carman is made to play Guard and could end up being the best Guard in this class.
(05-02-2021, 12:57 AM)Dr.Z Wrote: Not his playing weight. I can guarantee he won't be 317 when he hits the field. He is generally listed 335. I've seen him also listed at 325.
Yeah, Carman is clearly more of a bowling ball than Cosmi is.
Just look at them, I don't believe those weight numbers Bfine listed.
(05-02-2021, 03:15 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: I'll breakdown what I think of every pick.
A - Ja'Marr Chase, I was a Penei Sewell guy, but Chase is a great WR and an A+ prospect.
B+ - Carman Jackson, Injuries don't bother me, but some of his tape does. He wouldn't be a guy I'd trust at tackle, but he was an exceptional run blocker. Smart, kept with his assignments. I think he can be pretty solid at guard, like a Eric Steinbach. I can can see a lot of pulls to the other side, like we did for Rudi. At tackle he might struggle against the speed. Look at the video to see what I mean.
A - Joseph Ossai, he only had one single year and 9 games total as an edge player and came away with 55 tackles, 5.5 sacks and 15.5 tackles for lost. So natural and fluid when blitzing and stunting. Relentless and hard work ethic. Needs to get better at the point of attack against the run sometimes.
B - Cameron Sample, 6'3, 267 so he's got good size. He's another guy that was known for being relentless and finishing the play. A very solid pick.
A+ Tyler Shelvin, 6'3 346 a big nasty as they say. I absolutely love this pick. I think he'll be a Domata Peko or Vince Wilfork were his number will probably never do him justice. However, I think he'll help against the run tremendously. His biggest concern, is probably going to be himself.
B D’Ante Smith, has the height, length and speed you can't teach. If he hits the workout room and strengthens his frame he could really develop.
A Evan McPherson, he's one of the best kickers to come out in years. He can boom them, he can have pinpoint accuracy. Ultimately, he makes the team better.
I'm not sure how I feel about the last three yet. Overall, I'll give us a B+. This is going to turn out to be a very crucial draft and free agency for this franchise!
Carman makes and eats more pancakes than Ihop.
What is nice about this guy is he was playing LT against top Ends when he did struggle and when he didn't kick slide out and
let the End come to him. But when he kick slide he handled the top Ends very well in Chase Young and Patrick Jones and the
others. This guy is just a natural Guard for us on either side that CAN kick out to Tackle and play well in a pinch.
Expect him to start as a rookie. Mauler in the road game with good athleticism, great pick. Love it even more after watching
this vid you provided TBM even if it is a Raiders fan vid.
I'm a solid B+. I was really busy over the weekend and didn't have much time to follow what was going on with the draft or do much research on the guys they grabbed I didn't know much/anything about. Some of the injury history concerns me (as it does others). I wasn't firmly rooted in Sewell over Chase, though that's probably the move I would have made if I was making the call. I think Chase has the potential to be a big threat and having some timing and chemistry already established with Burrow could help them get off to a faster start.
At the end of the day, I think this roster is solid enough to compete if it's utilized properly. Really don't want to be staring down another top-5 pick next year...
His grades incrementally went down but that could be attributed to playing in more games each season and the drop in 2019 could have to do with moving to a new team when he went to Buffalo.
I really believe we see a different Spain under Frank Pollack.
Frank Pollack - 2015 Cowboys offensive line ranking - #1
2016 Cowboys offensive line ranking - #2
2017 Cowboys offensive line ranking - #4(after losing their LG and RT and injury to their LT)
2018 Bengals offensive line ranking - #27 (28th the previous season and Dallas dropped to 14th)
In 2019 the Bengals dropped to 30th in the league and in 2020 they remained at 30th.
His grades incrementally went down but that could be attributed to playing in more games each season and the drop in 2019 could have to do with moving to a new team when he went to Buffalo.
I really believe we see a different Spain under Frank Pollack.
Frank Pollack - 2015 Cowboys offensive line ranking - #1
2016 Cowboys offensive line ranking - #2
2017 Cowboys offensive line ranking - #4(after losing their LG and RT and injury to their LT)
2018 Bengals offensive line ranking - #27 (28th the previous season and Dallas dropped to 14th)
In 2019 the Bengals dropped to 30th in the league and in 2020 they remained at 30th.
Nice spin, why don't you include Pollack's more recent outing and the Jets OL rankings from last year? One of the worst in the NFL. Absolutely horrible, they gave up the most QB pressures in 2020 under Pollack.
My point? He isn't going to wave a magic wand and fix a line with sub par players, not going to happen. In Dallas he coached up a pro bowl caliber line that was already put together well with chemistry under Bill Callahan. He just continued what he already established.
The Bengals had the opportunity to get some solid starting day one players this offseason with draft and FA, and they blew it.
It is going to be a disagreement till the season starts, but I am in no way convinced the worst part of this team wasn't properly addressed this offseason.
Putting all of the Jets OL issues solely on Pollack is just silly. Go look at the group of WR’s they were trotting out last year. When Jamison Crowder is leading your team with 699 yards your weapons are absolute garbage. Add in terrible QB play by Darnold and Flacco and that’s a recipe for disaster. And if you’re going to knock him for the bad, you have to give him credit for coaching up Mekhi Becton into an absolute stud as a rookie LT.
(05-04-2021, 09:27 AM)GodFather Wrote: Nice spin, why don't you include Pollack's more recent outing and the Jets OL rankings from last year? One of the worst in the NFL. Absolutely horrible, they gave up the most QB pressures in 2020 under Pollack.
My point? He isn't going to wave a magic wand and fix a line with sub par players, not going to happen. In Dallas he coached up a pro bowl caliber line that was already put together well with chemistry under Bill Callahan. He just continued what he already established.
The Bengals had the opportunity to get some solid starting day one players this offseason with draft and FA, and they blew it.
It is going to be a disagreement till the season starts, but I am in no way convinced the worst part of this team wasn't properly addressed this offseason.
There was no spin but way to be condescending and a good reminder why I have stayed away from these boards.
The Jets have had a notoriously terrible O line and the franchise has shown no indication that they actually wish to improve it. The The Dallas rankings were to show the drop after losing Pollack and hiring Alexander. The Bengals rankings were to show that rather than improving after hiring Turner we rather saw a regression.
The Jets were 28th in O line grading in 2019 the first season with Pollack which was better than the grade of the Bengals at 30th and were 29th in 2020 still above the Bengals who remained 30th. The difference being the Jets made one key addition and that was a rookie LT who battled injury but graded out at 74.3 even still under the tutelage of Pollack. The Bengals in 2020 added several key players on the interior line which should have made some improvement but as we know it did not. Jonah Williams was the only Bengal to register a grade over 70.0 under Turner in 2020.
How about the complete regression of Billy Price under Jim Turner? in '18 Price graded out at 66.0 under Pollack. Under Turner he saw grades of 26.1 and 29.4.
Now on to your next line of complete BS and that is the Bengals blowing the chance to add day one solid starters. What would you call Riley Reiff? They brought back Quinton Spain who really is a solid player and that shows in his grading over his career and Carman is going to be a HUGE upgrade at one of the OG spots.
Bottom line is they did not make the moves YOU wanted them to.
(05-04-2021, 10:31 AM)OSUfan Wrote: There was no spin but way to be condescending and a good reminder why I have stayed away from these boards.
The Jets have had a notoriously terrible O line and the franchise has shown no indication that they actually wish to improve it. The The Dallas rankings were to show the drop after losing Pollack and hiring Alexander. The Bengals rankings were to show that rather than improving after hiring Turner we rather saw a regression.
The Jets were 28th in O line grading in 2019 the first season with Pollack which was better than the grade of the Bengals at 30th and were 29th in 2020 still above the Bengals who remained 30th. The difference being the Jets made one key addition and that was a rookie LT who battled injury but graded out at 74.3 even still under the tutelage of Pollack. The Bengals in 2020 added several key players on the interior line which should have made some improvement but as we know it did not. Jonah Williams was the only Bengal to register a grade over 70.0 under Turner in 2020.
How about the complete regression of Billy Price under Jim Turner? in '18 Price graded out at 66.0 under Pollack. Under Turner he saw grades of 26.1 and 29.4.
Now on to your next line of complete BS and that is the Bengals blowing the chance to add day one solid starters. What would you call Riley Reiff? They brought back Quinton Spain who really is a solid player and that shows in his grading over his career and Carman is going to be a HUGE upgrade at one of the OG spots.
Bottom line is they did not make the moves YOU wanted them to.
I think we should change your name to "The Spin Cycle" You are spinning faster than a whirlpool set on high. First off, you say the Jets rookie LT battled injury, well Williams hasn't been healthy for a full season yet! He is good when he's healthy but the real question is will he stay healthy? Our center Hopkins is battling an ACL. Will he be 100% ready? Doubtful. Your star Billy Price lost the job to him and his 5th year option wasnt renewed for a reason, cant blame it all on Turner.
And yes Turner was the worst, I agree with you. I don't think anyone is going to argue that in their right mind.
So we have Williams(injury prone) Hopkins(ACL) and thats it prior to this season that was good on the line. I love the Reiff pickup but its not enough. Spain is a solid backup, but starter? Not so sure on that one, time will tell. We spend our second round on a player who is a tackle that will be converted to guard? Yeah thats not what I call seriously addressing the line with that pick. The other OL pickups were not day one starters and will probably not make the final 53 roster.
I love what you said bout the Jets, cause frankly the same could be said about the Bengals. "notoriously terrible O line and the franchise has shown no indication that they actually wish to improve it" Remember Zac saying last year, "We like where our OL is at and feel confident with the current players"
Funny the team(Jets) that no intention on improving, they drafted an OL in the first round this year.
So you're right, it's not the moves I wanted them to make. I guess call me guilty cause I want them to win. Crazy huh?
(05-04-2021, 02:59 PM)GodFather Wrote: I think we should change your name to "The Spin Cycle" You are spinning faster than a whirlpool set on high. First off, you say the Jets rookie LT battled injury, well Williams hasn't been healthy for a full season yet! He is good when he's healthy but the real question is will he stay healthy? Our center Hopkins is battling an ACL. Will he be 100% ready? Doubtful. Your star Billy Price lost the job to him and his 5th year option wasnt renewed for a reason, cant blame it all on Turner.
And yes Turner was the worst, I agree with you. I don't think anyone is going to argue that in their right mind.
So we have Williams(injury prone) Hopkins(ACL) and thats it prior to this season that was good on the line. I love the Reiff pickup but its not enough. Spain is a solid backup, but starter? Not so sure on that one, time will tell. We spend our second round on a player who is a tackle that will be converted to guard? Yeah thats not what I call seriously addressing the line with that pick. The other OL pickups were not day one starters and will probably not make the final 53 roster.
I love what you said bout the Jets, cause frankly the same could be said about the Bengals. "notoriously terrible O line and the franchise has shown no indication that they actually wish to improve it" Remember Zac saying last year, "We like where our OL is at and feel confident with the current players"
Funny the team(Jets) that no intention on improving, they drafted an OL in the first round this year.
So you're right, it's not the moves I wanted them to make. I guess call me guilty cause I want them to win. Crazy huh?
Yeah if you had a line where the solid backups consistently graded out over 70.0 it would be nice wouldn't it. Can you point me to that NFL team. A guy grades out over 70.0 4 years in a row and he is just a solid backup...you are comical.
(05-04-2021, 09:27 AM)GodFather Wrote: The Bengals had the opportunity to get some solid starting day one players this offseason with draft and FA, and they blew it.
No they didn't They simply didn't draft who you thought they should. And since you're not currently employed with any NFL team as a scout, GM or talent evaluator of any type, I'll easily side with what the Bengals saw in these players over what you think. Its coming out now in many publications that the Bengals had a strong draft and FA period. Your negative assessments will be proven wrong soon enough when the coming season is played out.
(05-04-2021, 03:11 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Yeah if you had a line where the solid backups consistently graded out over 70.0 it would be nice wouldn't it. Can you point me to that NFL team. A guy grades out over 70.0 4 years in a row and he is just a solid backup...you are comical.
Spain graded out at 56.7 last year.... spinnnnnnnnnnnnnn
His highest grade was back in 2016 with 84.2. Those days are behind him and if they weren't the Bills would've never got rid of him Mitch Hedberg.
(05-04-2021, 03:16 PM)Beaker Wrote: No they didn't They simply didn't draft who you thought they should. And since you're not currently employed with any NFL team as a scout, GM or talent evaluator of any type, I'll easily side with what the Bengals saw in these players over what you think. Its coming out now in many publications that the Bengals had a strong draft and FA period. Your negative assessments will be proven wrong soon enough when the coming season is played out.
Good, I would love nothing more than that to happen...
Time will tell either way. But lets not come on here and make excuses if they do tank another season (injuries, give Pollack a few seasons to develop them, etc)
(05-01-2021, 07:42 PM)GodFather Wrote: Well the long awaited draft of 2021 is over. What is your initial thoughts and your gut grade of this years draft? Did the Bengals exceed your expectations, do exactly what you thought they would do or were you disappointed with this years choices as a whole?
I want to hear the pro's and con's from my fellow Bengal fans.
I think they did exactly what they had to do.....and should have done.
GO STRIPES!!!
(05-01-2021, 08:21 PM)GodFather Wrote: No I saw a second round pick who needs developing and not a starting guard this upcoming season.
Jackson Carman will almost certainly be penciled in as a starter at one of the guard spots. The only way that doesn't happen is if he gets hurt. If he goes to RG, it'll be an immediate--and significant--upgrade.
GO STRIPES!!!
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
