(05-09-2021, 11:51 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: I liked Alex Erickson, did the job well IMO. He was not a fumbler either.  Way better than Brandon Tate during the Marvin years.

Takes a special receiver to do KR. 

Nimble and not afraid to take punishing, high impact hits. 

The biggest issue with Erickson were his fumbles. He has 16 fumbles since 2016. Since 2016, he touched the ball 322 times. This includes punt returns, fair catches, rushes and receptions. On average, he fumbled every 20 touches. That is atrocious.

(05-09-2021, 11:17 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The biggest issue with Erickson were his fumbles. He has 16 fumbles since 2016. Since 2016, he touched the ball 322 times. This includes punt returns, fair catches, rushes and receptions. On average, he fumbled every 20 touches. That is atrocious.

Thank u for backing me up on those fumble stats.  I have no clue how I forgot Wilson being the kick returner.  Easily top 5 in the NFL last year.  I guess punt returner is only position of need.  

(05-09-2021, 11:17 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The biggest issue with Erickson were his fumbles. He has 16 fumbles since 2016. Since 2016, he touched the ball 322 times. This includes punt returns, fair catches, rushes and receptions. On average, he fumbled every 20 touches. That is atrocious.

You went back to '16 because he did indeed have a horrible fumbling problem his first two years. It hasn't been a problem the last 3, though. 9 of those 16 fumbles were in '16 and '17 despite only touching the ball 151 times.

In the last 3 years (203 touches) he has 7, which is fairly reasonable for a returner considering those touches don't include fair catches.

For me:

KR- Brandon Wilson- he wasn't resigned to be a backup safety!!! Simmons wants him as the KR.

PR- Darius Phillips- for now, but I could see one of the undrafted guys sneaking in here to possibly challenge for this spot (Lees, Pooka) or they might look at final cuts to fill this backup spot

Wilson already has the KR job locked up. His next KR TD gives him 3 and makes him the franchise leader. 

As for PR, it'll be a camp battle. I expect Pooka, Phillips, Boyd, and knowing Simmons, another surprise or two. 

Now the Texans fans can enjoy Erickson getting 9 yds
A return.than actually breakoff a 32 yd return
When the season is way out of reach

(05-10-2021, 12:34 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You went back to '16 because he did indeed have a horrible fumbling problem his first two years. It hasn't been a problem the last 3, though. 9 of those 16 fumbles were in '16 and '17 despite only touching the ball 151 times.

In the last 3 years (203 touches) he has 7, which is fairly reasonable for a returner considering those touches don't include fair catches.

I just went back to 16 because that encompassed his entire career here. While I agree that he did improve his fumbling issue, I wouldn’t say it is fairly reasonable. If Mixon had seven fumbles on his first 203 touches this year, we wouldn’t be happy.

Also, to narrow it down, 12 of those 16 fumbles were on punt returns. That’s 12 fumbles on 229 touches on punt return duty, fair catches included. Five of those fumbles came over the last three years, on 124 touches. He went from fumbling every 15 touches in 2016/2017 to every 24 touches until his release.

Does all of this mean he was awful? No. I do think it was his biggest problem, though.

(05-09-2021, 05:38 AM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: With Alex Erickson gone(thank god) who do u see returning kicks this year?  Phillips as the primary punt returner and Evans returning kickoffs maybe..  Just glad we don't have to see Erickson fumbles and his 5 yard return average.

Barring injuries, I think it will likely Brandon Wilson will return Kickoffs (he was just extended with a 2 year contract) and a combination of Phillips and Chris Evans doing the punt returns.  Right now, Phillips isn't on the starting roster for defense, and could be utilized more on special teams.  

Chris Evans is an intriguing prospect for me, and I can't but think they might have him be the backup slot WR and having him active on gameday to cover RB3, special teams, and WR5.  

(05-10-2021, 09:15 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I just went back to 16 because that encompassed his entire career here. While I agree that he did improve his fumbling issue, I wouldn’t say it is fairly reasonable. If Mixon had seven fumbles on his first 203 touches this year, we wouldn’t be happy.

Also, to narrow it down, 12 of those 16 fumbles were on punt returns. That’s 12 fumbles on 229 touches on punt return duty, fair catches included. Five of those fumbles came over the last three years, on 124 touches. He went from fumbling every 15 touches in 2016/2017 to every 24 touches until his release.

Does all of this mean he was awful? No. I do think it was his biggest problem, though.

Mixon doesn't have to catch 50 yard end-over-end kicks (sometimes in the rain) while waiting for guys with full heads of steam running straight for him. Comparing a returner to a RB in fumbles is like trying to compare a QB and a RB in fumbles. It's pointless because they have completely different jobs and experiences.

Top 6 (5 and 6 are tied so I went 6 rather than 5) in punt returns in 2020, fumbles in the last 3 years total:
Nyheim Hines, 2
Ray-Ray McCloud, 7
Jakeem Grant, 4
Andre Roberts, 7
Nsimba Webster, 0 (2 years)
Mecole Hardman, 4 (2 years)

So no, 5 fumbles over 3 years aren't particularly an issue for a punt returner. (I didn't narrow down if they were all punt fumbles, but at least half of those guys aren't really offensive players so it should be close). Keep in mind, muffing a punt, picking it back up, and returning it is still a fumble, even on a fair catch.

(05-10-2021, 10:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mixon doesn't have to catch 50 yard end-over-end kicks (sometimes in the rain) while waiting for guys with full heads of steam running straight for him. Comparing a returner to a RB in fumbles is like trying to compare a QB and a RB in fumbles. It's pointless because they have completely different jobs and experiences.

Top 6 (5 and 6 are tied so I went 6 rather than 5) in punt returns in 2020, fumbles in the last 3 years total:
Nyheim Hines, 2
Ray-Ray McCloud, 7
Jakeem Grant, 4
Andre Roberts, 7
Nsimba Webster, 0 (2 years)
Mecole Hardman, 4 (2 years)

So no, 5 fumbles over 3 years aren't particularly an issue for a punt returner. (I didn't narrow down if they were all punt fumbles, but at least half of those guys aren't really offensive players so it should be close). Keep in mind, muffing a punt, picking it back up, and returning it is still a fumble, even on a fair catch.

I went ahead and narrowed down the data for us.

Only three players in the NFL have more fumbles on punt returns than Alex Erickson’s five over the last three seasons; Ray-Ray McCloud has 6, Deandre Carter has 7 and Tarik Cohen has 6. There are two players tied with Erickson with 5 fumbles. Since 2016, no player in the NFL has more fumbles on punt returns than Erickson’s 12.

Reasons for this are that Erickson wasn’t the most sure handed returner, but he also was the consistent PR for the past few years, so he had more opportunities out there. There are guys with higher fumbles per touch, but those guys never returned punts for more than a season or two.

We are still looking apparently, reports are that we are talking with DeDe Westbrook who can return punts.

(05-10-2021, 11:20 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I went ahead and narrowed down the data for us.

Only three players in the NFL have more fumbles on punt returns than Alex Erickson’s five over the last three seasons; Ray-Ray McCloud has 6, Deandre Carter has 7 and Tarik Cohen has 6. There are two players tied with Erickson with 5 fumbles. Since 2016, no player in the NFL has more fumbles on punt returns than Erickson’s 12.

Reasons for this are that Erickson wasn’t the most sure handed returner, but he also was the consistent PR for the past few years, so he had more opportunities out there. There are guys with higher fumbles per touch, but those guys never returned punts for more than a season or two.

But he recovered 8 of them.

So really, 4 FL (and even then, doesn't mean that we didn't recover; can't find the numbers) in 5 years. Less than 1 a year.

His fumbling was a complete non-issue.

(05-10-2021, 11:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: But he recovered 8 of them.

So really, 4 FL (and even then, doesn't mean that we didn't recover; can't find the numbers) in 5 years. Less than 1 a year.

His fumbling was a complete non-issue.

He did, but my argument is you don’t want someone out there that puts you in a situation where you have to recover them. That’s 100% a roll of the dice. So, yes, he recovered 8 fumbles (we don’t know if all eight were on returns or not. He had 12 on returns, 16 total).

The point isn’t how many fumbles he lost, it’s how many times he fumbled. If all 16 fumbles were on returns, but he somehow recovered all of them, that wouldn’t make any of us feel better. We would still not like the fact that he fumbled 16 times.

So, yes, you’re right, the RESULT of those fumbles likely weren’t super catastrophic but the fact that he was fumbling as much as he was is the concern. The result is just up to chance.

Wilson will be the primary KR.
PR is going to be the question mark.
I think it will be between Phillips, Wilson, and newcomers Pooka Williams and Riley Lees.
Lees has the most experience, but he's also the least dynamic.
From watching Pooka's game tape, I think he has enough agility and quickness to be a real threat as PR. He did have 18 KRs for a 24.6 average and 1 TD.