One pickup that I feel isn’t discussed enough is the addition of Hendrickson. I’m excited about his upside, but curious to hear from you guys. What is your barometer for success for the upcoming season for Hendrickson.

Must surpass double digit sacks?
Full healthy year, no missed time?
Needs to outperform Carl Lawson statistically?

It’s been a while since we’ve had a consistently dominant rusher... will Trey change that?

Statistically outperform not just Carl Lawson but also Carlos Dunlap.

Lou is going to make it hard to do.

(05-13-2021, 11:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Statistically outperform not just Carl Lawson but also Carlos Dunlap.

Lou is going to make it hard to do.

consistently or just last year?

(05-13-2021, 11:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Statistically outperform not just Carl Lawson but also Carlos Dunlap.

Lou is going to make it hard to do.

Agreed on that last part. I don’t think he will meet or surpass his 13.5 sacks from last year because of the poor scheme here. He doesn’t have the supporting cast on the other side to help him out. We do in theory have a pretty good interior, if Reader and co. Can get a push it’ll certainly help.

(05-13-2021, 11:24 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: consistently or just last year?

If he can get 8 + sacks , stop  and contain edge and stay healthy, thats my measuring stick

I don't care about sacks, give me a pressure generator who can influence the game even when he isn't the guy who brings the QB down. If he can do that without a dominant rusher on the other side, at least as of now, I'll be happy as that is what we'd have gotten with Lawson.

Do his job without running his yap

(05-13-2021, 11:24 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: consistently or just last year?

This year vs this year.

I don't want Lawson to go elsewhere and put up 10 sacks, Dunlap put up 10, and Hendrickson to come here and put up like 6.5. Sure it'd technically be more than Lawson or Dunlap did last year, but it'd still look and feel like a failure.

Much like if Chase comes here and does better than 2020 AJ Green, but worse than 2021 AJ Green.

(05-13-2021, 11:08 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: One pickup that I feel isn’t discussed enough is the addition of Hendrickson. I’m excited about his upside, but curious to hear from you guys. What is your barometer for success for the upcoming season for Hendrickson.

Must surpass double digit sacks?
Full healthy year, no missed time?
Needs to outperform Carl Lawson statistically?

It’s been a while since we’ve had a consistently dominant rusher... will Trey change that?

Good topic.

I do not think Hendrickson is a dominant pass rusher in any way, shape, or form. The metrics I have seen (pass rush win rate, pressures, hits, etc) paint him as a slightly above average pass rusher. Not elite. And far below Lawson's (his PFF grades are also a bit lower, 72 to Lawson's 76).

In that regard, I think we massively overpaid for him. Albeit my understanding is we can cut bait after this year without eating too much $$. So the long term risk is low.

However, just because he isn't an elite pass rusher does not mean he cannot be a useful player. He did have 13.5 sacks. Even though many of them were out of pressure created by others, finishing the play is still a skill. And one we need. We did not create a lot of pressure last year, but I still remember an awful lot of missed tackles on the QB in the pocket. And not all from Jackson/Watson type QBs.

Further, he seems to be a high motor guy. Lou is not a fan of guys who take plays off (Dunlap). He should give good effort and be good vs the run. 

I hate Lou's scheme. Particularly trying to turn DEs into OLBs and drop them in coverage. Hendrickson should be better than Dunlap in this regard, and will at least try (unlike Dunlap). Hubbard will too. Sample & Kareem are DE/DT types and will be even worse at it, but will also try. Ossai, as an actual former LB, may actually be able to pull it off. ADG as well, if lined up outside (which we did not do much).

My long winded point is that Lou's scheme and our other DL guys won't do him a lot of favors. I believe the Saints blitz a lot.  I'd be shocked if he hits double figures and figure 5 to 8. Which is fine.

I suspect we cut bait after one year. He's a good player but not worth $20 million. If he stays beyond 1 year, that is a good barometer of success. Because that means we think he is actually worth that contract.

To me, pressures are vastly more important than sacks.

You obviously want players that finish the play, but if Hendrickson had 10 sacks but only 20 total pressures/hits/sacks, I would consider that a failed season.

If Trey consistently affects the QB, no matter how many sacks he actually racks up, I'll be happy with the signing.

Just a shame we couldn't keep Lawson.

(05-13-2021, 12:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This year vs this year.

I don't want Lawson to go elsewhere and put up 10 sacks, Dunlap put up 10, and Hendrickson to come here and put up like 6.5. Sure it'd technically be more than Lawson or Dunlap did last year, but it'd still look and feel like a failure.

Much like if Chase comes here and does better than 2020 AJ Green, but worse than 2021 AJ Green.

if chase cant outdo 2020 AJ green we made a terrible mistake lol..

But i got you i read it wrong

It’s not about pressures (all pressures with no sacks? If QB’s still complete the passes like last year then who cares?), not about sacks (10 sacks in low pressure situations or where he gets lucky or the QB trips? Who cares?). It’s about the eye test and how he performs when it matters most. Consistency throughout the games/season and coming up big when the game is on the line.

I’ll know it when I see it but there’s no number I can put out there that will tell us he was successful Or not or if he outplayed Lawson from last year.
By the end of the season it’ll be obvious either way without focusing on games hurt, sacks, pressures. If you watch the games you’ll know if he was successful or not.

I think Trey Hendrickson success will be tied to the success of the rest of the Defensive Line like it was in New Orleans. The Bengals really need to get some pass rush from the rookies, Hubbard, and Ogunjobi.

(05-13-2021, 11:08 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: One pickup that I feel isn’t discussed enough is the addition of Hendrickson. I’m excited about his upside, but curious to hear from you guys. What is your barometer for success for the upcoming season for Hendrickson.

Must surpass double digit sacks?
Full healthy year, no missed time?
Needs to outperform Carl Lawson statistically?

It’s been a while since we’ve had a consistently dominant rusher... will Trey change that?

What I love about Hendrickson is how he is so good at finishing, at least he was last year. 13.5 sacks and he cannot only 
bullrush but he can spin and he is great at holding the edge. Too often Dunlap couldn't finish, he would have hands on the 
QB and wouldn't end up coming up with the sack. Saw this tons of times with him. Lawson has great bend and great power
but he often gets blown by the QB by the OT.

Not as disciplined in his lanes as Hendrickson. Too much over pursuing from both of the guys who are no longer here.

Honestly, Cam Sample reminds me of Lawson a lot. About the same size and build but Cam wasn't used right on the edge
at Tulane. He was usually lined up in the B-Gap which negated a lot of his pass rush. Cam is a better run stopper than Carl
already and we all know about Carl's injury history. Between Hendrickson, Ossai (might be my fave pick) and Cam Sample 
we might be pretty tough on pass rushing downs again.

(05-13-2021, 11:38 AM)kalibengal Wrote: If he can get 8 + sacks , stop  and contain edge and stay healthy, thats my measuring stick

Agree with all of this.

I think we are missing stopping the run, the one area of weakness for Lawson it seemed was stopping to the run, if can do that.. get pressures, sacks and play great majority of the season, he will be a upgrade

(05-13-2021, 01:59 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I think we are missing stopping the run, the one area of weakness for Lawson it seemed was stopping to the run, if can do that.. get pressures, sacks and play great majority of the season, he will be a upgrade

This is my only concern with Hendrickson honestly is he isn't the greatest at stopping the run either. Thank God we have Hubbard 
here and brought in Cam, Ossai and Shelvin with Reader being healthy. Ogunjobi of course is also very relevant to this discussion.

(05-13-2021, 12:21 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: To me, pressures are vastly more important than sacks.

You obviously want players that finish the play, but if Hendrickson had 10 sacks but only 20 total pressures/hits/sacks, I would consider that a failed season.

If Trey consistently affects the QB, no matter how many sacks he actually racks up, I'll be happy with the signing.

Just a shame we couldn't keep Lawson.

It depends.
If the QB is getting pressured but still making the throws, the pressures really aren't good enough.
Really, Hendrickson needs to make enough of an impact to cause loss of down.
A turnover is best, followed by a sack, followed by an incompletion.

(05-13-2021, 02:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It depends.
If the QB is getting pressured but still making the throws, the pressures really aren't good enough.
Really, Hendrickson needs to make enough of an impact to cause loss of down.
A turnover is best, followed by a sack, followed by an incompletion.

Also tipped balls are awesome. Hendrickson is taller than Lawson which helps in this area.

(05-13-2021, 02:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It depends.
If the QB is getting pressured but still making the throws, the pressures really aren't good enough.
Really, Hendrickson needs to make enough of an impact to cause loss of down.
A turnover is best, followed by a sack, followed by an incompletion.

Well, that's more dependent on the QB and maybe his receivers than the pass rusher. The Pass rusher's job is to disrupt the QB. Whether or not the disrupted QB is able to still get a completion isn't really in the pass rusher's control. Sacks are obviously the best case scenario, but the ball is coming out so fast nowadays, you really can only control beating your man and getting near the QB.

If Hendrickson is consistently beating his man, he's doing his job and he'd be a good signing.

I don't really care if he is consistently losing to the OT but then in 10 isolated plays he happens to be the guy who lays on the QB.