(05-13-2021, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Also tipped balls are awesome. Hendrickson is taller than Lawson which helps in this area.

A tipped ball results in a turnover or incompletion, so it's included in what I listed.

(05-13-2021, 03:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A tipped ball results in a turnover or incompletion, so it's included in what I listed.

Yes it is, just saying we might see some more tipped balls with Hendrickson out there instead of Lawson cause of his height.

Also should just see him out there more cause of Lawson's injury history.

For me, it won't be his personal stats that measure his effectiveness, but rather how much his play commands enough attention that other members of the DL get to make plays, as a result.

(05-13-2021, 03:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes it is, just saying we might see some more tipped balls with Hendrickson out there instead of Lawson cause of his height.

Also should just see him out there more cause of Lawson's injury history.

Dunno about how much.
Hendrickson has just 3 PDs in 4 seasons.
Lawson didn't have a PD though in his 4 seasons.

(05-13-2021, 03:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For me, it won't be his personal stats that measure his effectiveness, but rather how much his play commands enough attention that other members of the DL get to make plays, as a result.

Well said as usual Sunset. Wanted to bring in Hendrickson and let Lawson go before we did.

If he can be disruptive that is what really matters. Think he can and get the sacks cause he is a good finisher.

The stats don't really matter that much but I bet he does well in the Sack category or at the very least it leads to others getting 
the Sacks and pressures. Love how disciplined Trey plays by not overpursuing and just staying in his gap beating the OT.

(05-13-2021, 03:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Dunno about how much.
Hendrickson has just 3 PDs in 4 seasons.
Lawson didn't have a PD though in his 4 seasons.

Still, some is better than none lol

(05-13-2021, 03:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A tipped ball results in a turnover or incompletion, so it's included in what I listed.

well some times.....  Unless your leon hall lol

(this is in no way knocking Hall who was a great pro)

Looking at Henderson sacks only 3 were coverage sacks. 4 or 5 he split double teams. Saints really wanted to keep him just couldn't afford him.

(05-13-2021, 01:59 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I think we are missing stopping the run, the one area of weakness for Lawson it seemed was stopping to the run, if can do that.. get pressures, sacks and play great majority of the season, he will be a upgrade

Correct.
Lawson's just been meh at best defending the run.
Combine that with the fact the Bengals really were on their 3rd-string DTs, and the run defense was horrible.
But Hendrickson really isn't good against the run either.

(05-13-2021, 11:28 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Agreed on that last part. I don’t think he will meet or surpass his 13.5 sacks from last year because of the poor scheme here. He doesn’t have the supporting cast on the other side to help him out. We do in theory have a pretty good interior, if Reader and co. Can get a push it’ll certainly help.

What is wrong with the scheme? How can you truly evaluate the scheme when the defense that Lou and Zac built during the offseason never once got on the field together?

(05-13-2021, 04:27 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Looking at Henderson sacks only 3 were coverage sacks. 4 or 5 he split double teams. Saints really wanted to keep him just couldn't afford him.

Yup.

My gauge for Hendrickson is him being a productive member of this defense. While individual stats are nice if he is a key ingredient in others increasing their stats then I am good with it. It is hard to project off of his time at New Orleans but it certainly appears that they more defensive opportunity he was given the more his production increased. Last year was his first season of significant defensive snaps as a starter without a large % of STs snaps as well.

(05-13-2021, 04:30 PM)OSUfan Wrote: What is wrong with the scheme? How can you truly evaluate the scheme when the defense that Lou and Zac built during the offseason never once got on the field together?

Eh I guess it’s personal preference to be honest. I’m more in favor of man coverage instead of zone. I’m not entirely sure that running a 4-2-5 as often as we do is wise either... could be part of the reason our run D is so poor.

To your point, we haven’t seen these players in this specific scheme and maybe it looks better this year, but I’m basing my current judgment on the last two seasons which didn’t look very promising.

I feel bad for a guy like Hendrickson. He won't get the benefit of the doubt that he's doing things beyond the numbers- like Lawson for example, or even Hubbard to a lesser extent. I fear it's sacks or bust for Hendrickson, the way it was for Odom back in the day. He's just such an easy scapegoat if the losses pile up and he doesn't produce.

At the same time, if the team improves and he does play well, not sure he'll get much credit. I'm glad we got him, but the expectations will be a problem imo.

Let's remember Hubbard does have pass rush capability. As does Ossai and also Ogunboji - do not overlook this acquisition as a part of the problem was that when Geno's physical problems caught up to him we had no pressure at all inside. So right now we look a lot better on the DL in terms of getting pass rush.

(05-13-2021, 05:48 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Eh I guess it’s personal preference to be honest. I’m more in favor of man coverage instead of zone. I’m not entirely sure that running a 4-2-5 as often as we do is wise either... could be part of the reason our run D is so poor.

To your point, we haven’t seen these players in this specific scheme and maybe it looks better this year, but I’m basing my current judgment on the last two seasons which didn’t look very promising.

I am also more of a Man coverage guy, but you have to be able to also play Zone. WJ3 couldn't. Awuzie can play both, same with
Hilton, Ricardo Allen, Phillips, Bates, Bell etc.

Lou has sucked but WJ3 got paid too much for a purely Man corner.

(05-13-2021, 06:26 PM)tms Wrote: I feel bad for a guy like Hendrickson. He won't get the benefit of the doubt that he's doing things beyond the numbers- like Lawson for example, or even Hubbard to a lesser extent. I fear it's sacks or bust for Hendrickson, the way it was for Odom back in the day. He's just such an easy scapegoat if the losses pile up and he doesn't produce.

At the same time, if the team improves and he does play well, not sure he'll get much credit. I'm glad we got him, but the expectations will be a problem imo.

Guess I could see this if the stats aren't glaringly good for Hendrickson. There will always be certain players certain fans dislike
if they don't set the world on fire even if the player who left didn't set the world on fire.

Hendrickson was the better deal for us bottom line, stays healthy for the most part and it is a what have you done for me lately
League. 13.5 sacks compared to 5.5. Hope we caught that fire in a bottle Trey displayed last season.

(05-13-2021, 07:17 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's remember Hubbard does have pass rush capability. As does Ossai and also Ogunboji - do not overlook this acquisition as a part of the problem was that when Geno's physical problems caught up to him we had no pressure at all inside. So right now we look a lot better on the DL in terms of getting pass rush.

I bet Hubbard has been working just as hard this year to rush the passer as he did to stop the run last Offseason.

Not betting against Hubbard and yeah, Ossai and Ogunjobi and even Cam Sample shouldn't be over looked.

Ogunjobi is made to play 3-tech and I guarantee he will be an upgrade over what we saw last season for damn sure.

(05-13-2021, 05:48 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Eh I guess it’s personal preference to be honest. I’m more in favor of man coverage instead of zone. I’m not entirely sure that running a 4-2-5 as often as we do is wise either... could be part of the reason our run D is so poor.

To your point, we haven’t seen these players in this specific scheme and maybe it looks better this year, but I’m basing my current judgment on the last two seasons which didn’t look very promising.

Running a 4-2-5 with all of our front players healthy and ready to go, especially with that additions we have made to our front, should look vastly different than what was showcased last season. I do agree and I prefer more man coverage, I actually think Waynes is a better man than zone corner, but I will reserve judgement until I can see at least a fair representation of the unit they have envisioned on the field.