(05-14-2021, 10:47 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Carson's own words don't prove my point about Carson?

Are you seriously trying to claim that?

It was a lot of the throws when anyone was near his knee.  I obviously don't know the percentages or any answers like that to your smart ass answers, but I know some balls sailed high and were just off the mark.  

He had a strong year but it could have been even better.

Here's what Carson had to say about the confidence factor and feeling normal again:

'It’s all a feel thing. That confidence comes from how it feels to step into a throw or how it feels to really push off an explode off of that leg. It takes 18 months to where your knee feels somewhat normal again. It takes two years until you can’t really tell that you had surgery on it. So that first year, it just doesn’t feel right.' 

'It’s just a combination of you as a player knowing the thing is going to hold up. If I have a 300-pound guy coming at me, I have enough explosiveness, enough power, enough strength to explode off the leg and push up in the pocket or whatever it may be.'

If you go back and look at the 2006 season, you can visibly see him becoming more confident every week - being more mechanically sound, stepping into his throws more assertively, rolling out more and throwing on the move...and that was with an o-line that played like shit in the first few games.

Burrow will just have to go out there and play, do the things he needs to do and take some lumps along the way to prove to himself and everyone else that the knee is good to go. He's an ultra-confident guy already, so it probably won't take much to boost his comfort level on the field once he plays a game or 2. Beyond that, as Palmer and a lot of other players who've had serious knee injuries have stated, it just takes time for the knee itself to feel normal again. If Burrow makes the same type of in-season progress that Palmer did, he should have a very good year.

(05-14-2021, 11:28 AM)Nately120 Wrote: We have a bit of a conundrum, in a sense.  We want Burrow to play like a man possessed but we also know if he gets hurt that we're going to go right back to rooting for a tank job AGAIN.  We want all the groceries in one bag, but we don't want the bag to be heavy.  

This is such a weird analogy but I love it lol. Great job. Agree with the rest of the post too (but you and I are clearly in the minority, hehehe). 

(05-14-2021, 12:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I can count on one hand the number of people I know who risked their entire career to stand up to an incompetent boss.

I can't count how many people quit their jobs lol

(05-14-2021, 05:01 PM)tms Wrote: This is such a weird analogy but I love it lol. Great job. Agree with the rest of the post too (but you and I are clearly in the minority, hehehe). 

Simpson's reference. 

We will see after the Pittsburgh game. The defense will attack him and literally hit him in the knee with a metal pipe. The announcers will say it is just hard nosed football. If he gets up from that, I think we are good.

(05-14-2021, 05:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I can't count how many people quit their jobs lol

Did Carson go into Mike Brown’s office and say, “I quit” or was there more to the situation you’re ignoring?

(05-14-2021, 09:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Did Carson go into Mike Brown’s office and say, “I quit” or was there more to the situation you’re ignoring?

Of course there was more to it, same as your analogy of what we don't know.

Not defending Mike Brown or Carson.

(05-14-2021, 09:25 PM)Destro Wrote: We will see after the Pittsburgh game. The defense will attack him and literally hit him in the knee with a metal pipe. The announcers will say it is just hard nosed football. If he gets up from that, I think we are good.

The pencil necked geek known as Ryan Finley survived both of his games against the Steelers, so I'm starting to doubt their ability to hurt QBs.

(05-16-2021, 07:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The pencil necked geek known as Ryan Finley survived both of his games against the Steelers, so I'm starting to doubt their ability to hurt QBs.

I never had too many nice things to say about Finley... But he stood in there and took some serious hits 8n that second game. Respectable...

Carson Palmer bounced back from injury and so will Joe Burrow. One cannot be less than mentally tough and play professional sports. We need to credit Andy Dalton too because from 2016-2019 he got slapped around like the proverbial red headed stepchild in KMart and he kept getting up to take another snap.

(05-16-2021, 07:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The pencil necked geek known as Ryan Finley survived both of his games against the Steelers, so I'm starting to doubt their ability to hurt QBs.

Nah, they have been on the same trek since the 70's. Their blood lust for the Bengals goes unchecked. 

(05-14-2021, 11:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course there was more to it, same as your analogy of what we don't know.

Then you know he didn’t quit.

Quote:Not defending Mike Brown or Carson.

Right. You’re just calling Carson mentally weak and a quitter.

The fact Carson came back from that knee injury and surgery in the time he did to start Week 1 at the highest level of professional football in the world proves otherwise.

I understand why people want to hate on Carson. However, like many other good to great players the Bengals have had, I can't blame him for wanting out from under the Mike Brown led Bengals. My concern is that the same will happen with Burrow if we continue to address the OL they have. Stop gaps and projects will only work for so long. Yes, I agree Pollack is worlds better than Turner. He needs more talent to work with though.

(05-14-2021, 10:47 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: He had a strong year but it could have been even better.

He got sacked twice as often in '06 as he did in '05 yet his numbers were almost the same.  I could argue that he was performing better in '06 then '05.

(05-17-2021, 07:15 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Then you know he didn’t quit.


Right. You’re just calling Carson mentally weak and a quitter.

The fact Carson came back from that knee injury and surgery in the time he did to start Week 1 at the highest level of professional football in the world proves otherwise.

Palmer got injured in the playoffs, missed 0 games and had a very good season.  Hopefully Burrow is nothing like him. 


Again,  I think Burrow is swell but let's at least wait for him to:

A. show no fear or hesitancy this season
B. make it through the entire season
C. show no decline in play this season

before we declare that he's head and shoulders above Palmer when it comes to brushing off a major injury.  And I get the fandom and excitement for Burrow but lordy, we do realize he's a flesh and blood human being, right?  I feel like the guy is considered to be some sort of futuristic cyborg who is programmed to do nothing but win football games.

Oh, and we want him to be here forever and not be a crybaby but we also kind of want him to kick Mike Brown's door in and demand changes to the organiztion.  Whew, this season can't start soon enough.

(05-17-2021, 09:37 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I understand why people want to hate on Carson. However, like many other good to great players the Bengals have had, I can't blame him for wanting out from under the Mike Brown led Bengals. My concern is that the same will happen with Burrow if we continue to address the OL they have. Stop gaps and projects will only work for so long. Yes, I agree Pollack is worlds better than Turner. He needs more talent to work with though.

That’s the part I don’t understand with the “he’s a quitter” fans. He didn’t just walk into the office and announce, “I want out of here.”

This wasn’t Corey Dillon throwing his uniform into the stands, or the Pickens’ clause scenario, or Chad holding out for more money or deferring surgery until the start of the season to hold out for more money. This was a player holding the owner accountable for winning. And the owner saying, “No,” to doing everything in his power to win. Carson had one trump card to play, his service, and he played it. If you can’t commit to winning, trade me. Mike thought he would call Carson’s bluff, but Mike didn’t understand money wasn’t more important than winning to Carson. Only Mike Brown would commit to not winning over his $100M QB.

(05-17-2021, 12:04 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That’s the part I don’t understand with the “he’s a quitter” fans. He didn’t just walk into the office and announce, “I want out of here.”

This wasn’t Corey Dillon throwing his uniform into the stands, or the Pickens’ clause scenario, or Chad holding out for more money or deferring surgery until the start of the season to hold out for more money. This was a player holding the owner accountable for winning. And the owner saying, “No,” to doing everything in his power to win. Carson had one trump card to play, his service, and he played it. If you can’t commit to winning, trade me. Mike thought he would call Carson’s bluff, but Mike didn’t understand money wasn’t more important than winning to Carson.  Only Mike Brown would commit to not winning over his $100M QB.

After 2010 Marvin was the one who went public with wanting out of Cincy if MB didn't meet specific demands, said demands were not met and Marvin just backed down.  So in addition to having a slew of former players and some coaches who wanted out and a QB who wanted out we got another 8 years of a HC who wanted out.

Ah well...at least the Chad love is back now that he's Mr. Bengal who flopped hard in NE, MIA, and the CFL.  I do have a slick throwback Pats jersey of his I got for like $3!

(05-17-2021, 12:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: After 2010 Marvin was the one who went public with wanting out of Cincy if MB didn't meet specific demands, said demands were not met and Marvin just backed down.  So in addition to having a slew of former players and some coaches who wanted out and a QB who wanted out we got another 8 years of a HC who wanted out.

Ah well...at least the Chad love is back now that he's Mr. Bengal who flopped hard in NE, MIA, and the CFL.  I do have a slick throwback Pats jersey of his I got for like $3!

Marvin wasn’t going to get Mike to change more than infinitesimal increments. Marvin said he wasn’t coming back unless changes were made and he folded like a cheap, factory-recalled Walmart lawn chair on clearance. Carson was probably the only person in the organization with enough leverage to force Mike Brown to change. It is very rare to see someone with the leadership and courage to risk their entire career to effect a positive change within an organization. It’s so rare some people can’t even recognize it when they see it. Carson put his ass on the line to make the team better. Who else has done that?

(05-17-2021, 12:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Marvin wasn’t going to get Mike to change more than infinitesimal increments. Marvin said he wasn’t coming back unless changes were made and he folded like a cheap, factory-recalled Walmart lawn chair on clearance. Carson was probably the only person in the organization with enough leverage to force Mike Brown to change. It is very rare to see someone with the leadership and courage to risk their entire career to effect a positive change within an organization. It’s so rare some people can’t even recognize it when they see it. Carson put his ass on the line to make the team better. Who else has done that?

I always assumed Carson was pretty pissed at Marvin for backing down, but I think Carson has been quite complimentary of Marvin now that the whole thing is bygones for everyone who isn't us Bengals fans.  That had to suck charging the hill with your HC and seeing him bail out, though.  Would Carson want to stay here and play with a HC who sold him out like that?

Ah well.  I realize this stuff is only important in our minds.  The general idea outside of Cincy has always been Carson didn't win a SB without the Bengals and the Bengals didn't win a SB without Carson so who cares?

Anywho, if Burrow shows any sort of hesitancy in week 1 are we going to call him a coward?  I doubt it and I sincerely hope not.  Rather, if/when ZT calls for 50 passing plays against the Vikings in week 1 we're all going to start clutching our pearls.  I'd wager this whole thing is moot, but hey it's a message board so here we are jawing on.

(05-17-2021, 07:15 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Then you know he didn’t quit.


Right. You’re just calling Carson mentally weak and a quitter.

The fact Carson came back from that knee injury and surgery in the time he did to start Week 1 at the highest level of professional football in the world proves otherwise.

Just more mentally weak than Burrow, that is all I am saying.