I'm not sure if I did this correctly, but I hopefully attached the Bengals 2015 roster and PFF rankings for most of the starters.  I think people might be shocked when they see the numbers.  The main area that roster has over the current roster (projecting this season, not last season) is at LB and offensive line, but I only see LB as the major area of superiority.

However, I think the current roster is better at QB, WR, RB, and safety.  CB is a big question mark, as we don't really know what we have there but I sure like the additions they made there.  

I think the real take away is how that team wasn't "poor" in really any area, although they rated Peko poor, I think that is more of a function of not knowing the assignments.  This current roster had at least 6 positions that I would rate poor:  both guards, both DTs, one CB (Whenever Sims had to start), and maybe one of the LBs.  Every single one of those positions have been upgraded substantially (except LB).  

Higher motor, relentless guys.  Depth at key position groups, and no "poor" rankings on the radar.  That is what makes me excited about this season.


EDIT:  I realized that this was the 2015 roster before the season and was based on the 2014 final rankings.  The attached link has the 2016 rankings based on how they performed in 2015.  While this post turned in to a debate about PFF and how people take it as gospel and how dumb that makes you look, I had hoped to illustrate that this season might have a better ranking in a number of position groups and provide optimism about the roster.  Here is the link:   https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2016-cheat-sheet-cincinnati-bengals

Of course, that link has the starting roster for 2016, which included the departures of Sanu and MJJ.  

(05-22-2021, 03:45 PM)SHRacerX Wrote:   This current roster had at least 6 positions that I would rate poor:  both guards, both DTs,

(05-22-2021, 03:45 PM)SHRacerX Wrote:

Mike Pollack "good" in 2015

Andy Dalton "average".



Good old PFF is always good for some laughs.

Isn't 2015 the year Tyler Eifert had 700 yards and 13 TDs? How is he rated as average?

(05-22-2021, 04:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Pollack "good" in 2015

Andy Dalton "average".



Good old PFF is always good for some laughs.

It looks like it should be Boling. He started 16 games in 2015. 

I think this is the wrong roster. In 2015, they had Michael Johnson starting at DE, AJ Hawk at SLB, and Bodine at C. I don't get this.

(05-22-2021, 04:16 PM)Earendil Wrote: Isn't 2015 the year Tyler Eifert had 700 yards and 13 TDs? How is he rated as average?

Exactly. 2015 was an amazing year for both Dalton and Eifert.

How were either of them average?

OP are you sure this isn't from 2014? That'd make more sense with Hill being graded so well and Dalton/Eifert being average.

Also, wasn't Geno the PFF darling back then? How was he not elite?

(05-22-2021, 07:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly. 2015 was an amazing year for both Dalton and Eifert.

How were either of them average?

OP are you sure this isn't from 2014? That'd make more sense with Hill being graded so well and Dalton/Eifert being average.

Also, wasn't Geno the PFF darling back then? How was he not elite?

It is 2014... That was the year Emanuel Lemur was gonna blow up. Tyler Eifert didn't even finish week 1 of that season . Not sure who that's even average. I also think Terrance Newman was still starting over Dre. That chart's all screwed up.

(05-22-2021, 04:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Pollack "good" in 2015

Andy Dalton "average".



Good old PFF is always good for some laughs.

The sad part is people take this as gospel

Dalton was 3rd in mvp voting, but yet, he was “average”

(05-22-2021, 07:50 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: The sad part is people take this as gospel

Dalton was 3rd in mvp voting, but yet, he was “average”

It's hilarious how seriously people take their ratings. There are many holes in PFF's system but they don't want to hear anything about it.

(05-22-2021, 08:16 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: It's hilarious how seriously people take their ratings. There are many holes in PFF's system but they don't want to hear anything about it.

PFF should be used as a "rough estimate" to get an idea of how well a player is performing, but you should also use other means, including base stats, other advanced stat sites, expert opinions and even the dreaded eye test to form a full opinion.

Never rely solely on PFF, but it is a nice reference.

Another one that is quickly rivaling PFF in over reliance is that stupid athleticism score people started using like crazy this offseason.

(05-22-2021, 07:50 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: The sad part is people take this as gospel

Dalton was 3rd in mvp voting, but yet, he was “average”

I completely forgot that Mike Pollack played for the Bengals.

(05-22-2021, 10:58 PM)samhain Wrote: I completely forgot that Mike Pollack played for the Bengals.

I don't even remember Mike Pollack period. There are a few blasts from the past on that 2014 roster. Colby Hamilton y'all!!! Remember when the Browns had high hopes for Greg Little? He was one of those supposed to be awesome, but turned out to be busts/ scrubs elsewhere signings for us... Maybin, Little, Taylor Mays... They did catch lightning in a bottle with Cedric Benson though.

(05-22-2021, 10:58 PM)samhain Wrote: I completely forgot that Mike Pollack played for the Bengals.

I'm with Jason. I don't even remember who that is, which is weird. I usually remember pretty much everyone who played for the team.

What kind of maroon bashes a website when the problem is that data is from the wrong year. 

lulz

(05-22-2021, 04:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

Christian Covington and Xavier Williams were poor.  I believe Dalton's rating of average was in relation to other QBs.  He scored an 80.1, which is a very good score, but might have been mid-pack compared to all 32 starting QBs.  I just thought the roster comparison was interesting.  

(05-22-2021, 04:35 PM)samhain Wrote: I think this is the wrong roster.  In 2015, they had Michael Johnson starting at DE, AJ Hawk at SLB, and Bodine at C.  I don't get this.

I am starting to think it was at the beginning of 2015, and based on the numbers of the 2014 Bengals.  Zeitler was the starting RG, and Hawk played appx 25% of the snaps.  

(05-23-2021, 09:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am starting to think it was at the beginning of 2015, and based on the numbers of the 2014 Bengals.  Zeitler was the starting RG, and Hawk played appx 25% of the snaps.  

It mush be.  Bodine started his entire rookie year, which was 2015.  Pollack came in when Cook was dealing with career-derailing injures in 14.  

A little off topic, but am I the only one who thinks PFF has kinda jumped the shark at this point?

The reason I ask is it seems it's gone from a new and useful tool to somewhat of an overrated, if not downright BS service as of late. I find myself stumbling across more and more things from PFF where I'm left thinking "Well that was clearly bullshit."

Case in point, someone for PFF recently wrote an article that they've come to the conclusion that Tyreek Hill may be the best deep threat of all time. And of course, they used their analystics to support this. Well guess what? They got absolute flamed (rightfully so) for forgetting about Randy Moss. My favorite comment I saw was just a video link that said something like "Randy Moss has a highlight reel of 40+ yard touchdowns that's 10 minutes long."

Here's the story where I found it: https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3364818/an-analyst-calls-tyreek-hill-the-best-deep-threat-ever-and-im-just-here-to-see-him-get-ratioed-by-the-randy-moss-people

I think I'm out on PFF. Sometimes they make it real hard to take them seriously.

(05-23-2021, 11:33 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: A little off topic, but am I the only one who thinks PFF has kinda jumped the shark at this point?

The reason I ask is it seems it's gone from a new and useful tool to somewhat of an overrated, if not downright BS service as of late.  I find myself stumbling across more and more things from PFF where I'm left thinking "Well that was clearly bullshit."

Case in point, someone for PFF recently wrote an article that they've come to the conclusion that Tyreek Hill may be the best deep threat of all time.  And of course, they used their analystics to support this.  Well guess what?  They got absolute flamed (rightfully so) for forgetting about Randy Moss.  My favorite comment I saw was just a video link that said something like "Randy Moss has a highlight reel of 40+ yard touchdowns that's 10 minutes long."

Here's the story where I found it:  https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3364818/an-analyst-calls-tyreek-hill-the-best-deep-threat-ever-and-im-just-here-to-see-him-get-ratioed-by-the-randy-moss-people

I think I'm out on PFF.  Sometimes they make it real hard to take them seriously.

True, I don't know if PFF was even around when Moss was playing...maybe they were.  I don't know.  I just used them as a measuring stick to one of the more potent rosters we have ever seen in Cincinnati (I corrected it and used the 2016 roster as year's beginning since the original was the 2015 numbers based on 2014 stats).  

I am very optimistic on the improvements of the offensive line, and throughout the roster.  My biggest concern is the LG spot where the competition is between Spain and XSF.  XSF finished the year ok after coming back from a near season-long injury, and Spain played with some passion that we all liked but neither graded out very well.  

I have a lot of faith in Jonah at LT, Hopkins at C, (although he hasn't proven anything yet in the NFL) Carman at RG, and Reiff at RT.  That LG spot is still bothering me, though.  That 2015 team had Boling and Zeitler as one of the better guard tandems in the league.  We had a piss-poor center, but pretty strong at G and the tackles were also solid with Whit and Smith.  

I have no idea what promises were made to Reiff, and I know he already said he would play anywhere, but I am starting to warm up to the idea of Reiff at LG and Morgan Moses being signed to play RT.  I have no idea what kind of person Moses is, or if he would want to play here, but his previous contract was around $8 million per and he already collected a signing bonus.  I wonder if he wouldn't sign a three-year deal that was voidable (or whatever the terminology is) after two years where he get roughly $10 million per year?  I know the Bengals are supposedly $22 million under the cap, but that doesn't include Chase and Ossai's deals yet to be inked. 

I just really like the idea of Reiff playing LG next to Jonah and having Moses at RT.  At least statistically speaking, Moses would be an upgrade over Reiff and Reiff would be an upgrade over XSF and Spain.  Perhaps the money could be from releasing XSF?  We have Spain for depth.