Pretty simple question. Signing Wayne’s last year is what lead to us letting WJ3 walk. Was this a good move? Wayne’s is supposed to tackle better, but can he stay healthy? Can he shut down number one wideouts? Can he force more turnovers?

Who would you rather have as your number one corner?

Does Wayne’s fit the scheme better?

...
I’m not sure what to expect from a healthy Wayne’s. I hope he’s better than WJ3, but I could see WJ3 lighting it up in Washington too. Wayne’s should be decent I would think. But an upgrade? I’m not sure about that.

Hand up, I have not spent a lot of time watching Trae Waynes play.  I've maybe seen 4 or 5 Vikings games while he played there, and it's not like I was superfocused on the DB's.  And even if I was, it was probably Xavier Rhodes.

All this said, I chose Waynes.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.  I thought William Jackson was a terribly overrated and I couldn't be happier that we didn't come anywhere near matching what he just got paid.

(05-23-2021, 12:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Hand up, I have not spent a lot of time watching Trae Waynes play.  I've maybe seen 4 or 5 Vikings games while he played there, and it's not like I was superfocused on the DB's.  And even if I was, it was probably Xavier Rhodes.

All this said, I chose Waynes.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.  I thought William Jackson was a terribly overrated and I couldn't be happier that we didn't come anywhere near matching what he just got paid.

Im about 55% favoring WJ3 and 45% favoring Wayne’s. This will be something I’m going to watch as the year goes on—which player is better. I’m hoping Wayne’s gets more turnovers and tackles better. There’s just a lot about his game that remains a mystery until I see him play.

Waynes has been much more productive in his NFL career. WTS, I haven't watched him much since his "No Fly Zone" days at MSU

(05-23-2021, 01:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Waynes has been much more productive in his NFL career. WTS, I haven't watched him much since his "No Fly Zone" days at MSU

Drafted Dennard, signed Isaiah Lewis as an UDFA and traded for Waynes.

The Bengals have had the entire No Fly Zone unit on the team at some point.

im going off the games Ive seen Waynes play and he definitely is more into tackling and stuffing run plays than WJ3...that said, hopefully he can cover at par with WJ3 and can actually catch the Picks .

(05-23-2021, 12:46 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Pretty simple question. Signing Wayne’s last year is what lead to us letting WJ3 walk. Was this a good move? Wayne’s is supposed to tackle better, but can he stay healthy? Can he shut down number one wideouts? Can he force more turnovers?

Who would you rather have as your number one corner?

Does Wayne’s fit the scheme better?

...
I’m not sure what to expect from a healthy Wayne’s. I hope he’s better than WJ3, but I could see WJ3 lighting it up in Washington too. Wayne’s should be decent I would think. But an upgrade? I’m not sure about that.

Jackson may be one of the worst tackling CB's in the NFL. Jackson was supposed to be a ball hawk and have great hands, don't remember one play that showed he had great hands, but remember him not catching catchable balls.

Waynes had a an injury, so did Jackson year #1 so to say either has an edge in staying on the field is a reach. We know Jackson was not a stud  CB so glad we did not pay him to keep him here an over inflated salary and bonus.

Besides, Jackson is gone and Waynes is here, so my money is 100% on Waynes and Jackson can miss tackles and not plays somewhere else.

Wj3 is better in man/press coverage. Waynes is better against rush, tackling and maybe zone coverage.

Probably neither? If I am giving a CB $13.5-14m/yr (both are being paid as Top-10 CBs), I want that CB to be a guy who QBs will think "hey, maybe I shouldn't throw at him, he might pick it off" and neither of those two guys are that.

(05-23-2021, 03:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Probably neither? If I am giving a CB $13.5-14m/yr (both are being paid as Top-10 CBs), I want that CB to be a guy who QBs will think "hey, maybe I shouldn't throw at him, he might pick it off" and neither of those two guys are that.

(05-23-2021, 12:46 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Pretty simple question. Signing Wayne’s last year is what lead to us letting WJ3 walk. Was this a good move? Wayne’s is supposed to tackle better, but can he stay healthy? Can he shut down number one wideouts? Can he force more turnovers?

Who would you rather have as your number one corner?

Does Wayne’s fit the scheme better?

...
I’m not sure what to expect from a healthy Wayne’s. I hope he’s better than WJ3, but I could see WJ3 lighting it up in Washington too. Wayne’s should be decent I would think. But an upgrade? I’m not sure about that.

The only reason you would pose this question is you like WJ3 or you like saying WJ3.   Here is the deal though. Bengals are a last place team.  Did Ross or WJ3 ever live up to #1 draft pick under Marvin Lewis, and that is a huge NO.   So LAST PLACE Bengals let their contracts go. Also let go the contracts of Andy Dalton to AJ Green, and Dunlap and Atkins on Defense.  Price is one last Marvin #1 Pick about ready to see his contract go bye bye. 

Bengals need to build a new team for new decade around Joe Burrow.  NEW DEY....It's clear the new coaches didn't think as much of Marvins pick WJ3, and they felt that salary cap money could be better spent elsewhere.  Bengals cut salary under Zac to now bring in O Line, D Line, WR, Burrow at QB, and last year added some DB.  Higgins and Chase make 2 years of drafting WR pretty high to give Burrow targets. 

The Bengals were so awful in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, changes were indeed needed. I told people on here not to be surprised if some fan favorites got shown the door.  The Bengals did not sign WJ3 because the Bengals did not want WJ3.  It's not like he was a Pro Bowl player.  In order to make a good omelet, you have to break a few eggs. 

So Wayne may not even be who Bengals brought in with the WJ3 contract dumping.  LAST PLACE Bengals awful for 4 seasons needed many new players.  Out with the old, in with the new.  Hopefully Bengals will be better in The Trenches, both Blocking and Tackling up front where the ball is snapped. Bengals have been way too weak in The Trenches, hence the yearly awful seasons.

Going with Waynes. I was never really impressed with WJ3. I can’t think of many plays where he stood out and still can’t get that play where he let Bell run by him and did t touch him on the sideline his rookie year.

(05-23-2021, 12:46 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Pretty simple question. Signing Wayne’s last year is what lead to us letting WJ3 walk. Was this a good move? Wayne’s is supposed to tackle better, but can he stay healthy? Can he shut down number one wideouts? Can he force more turnovers?

Who would you rather have as your number one corner?

Does Wayne’s fit the scheme better?

...
I’m not sure what to expect from a healthy Wayne’s. I hope he’s better than WJ3, but I could see WJ3 lighting it up in Washington too. Wayne’s should be decent I would think. But an upgrade? I’m not sure about that.

Have to wait and find out how they play this season. Last season Willie was clearly the better corner, as he played, and he was our best corner on the field.

 

WJ3 was highly overated. He did play as advertised
Let's be honest he never showed any real desire to
Stay in Cincy. Very average tackler in fact he was a arm
Tackler. You rarely saw him lay a shoulder into any
Ball carrier. He must have led the NFL in dropped INTs

WJIII would have been a lot better in a base Man defense. In Zone he was just awful. Waynes is fair in Man and in Zone above average. Plus he brings a better tackling game.

In fact every S and CB we signed in Free Agency are players who are at minimum average in Zone if not higher. Since Lou loves Zone we have essentially restocked the secondary with Zone players.

Went Waynes simply because WJ3 acted like he didn’t want to be here.

Could easily see WJ3 pulling a JJ and going on to have a very nice long career at CB after being a Bengal first round pick who left. But paying big bucks to keep a guy who doesn’t want to be here is how we build losers. So I’m glad we went and got Waynes.

CB play is really hard to quantify, and I’ve never watched Waynes play much. The only data, aside from PFF, is PFR and their stats on coverage. Here are the numbers...

Waynes from 2018 through 2019 allowed 108 catches on 154 targets (70%) for 1160 yards (10.7 ypc) and six TDs for a 99.49 rating.

WJ3 from 2018 through 2020 allowed 121 catches on 218 targets (55%) for 1664 yards (13.75) for 14 TDs for a rating of 97.73.

(05-23-2021, 05:20 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Went Waynes simply because WJ3 acted like he didn’t want to be here.

Could easily see WJ3 pulling a JJ and going on to have a very nice long career at CB after being a Bengal

I think WJax is in a position to look great behind that defense in Washington. I loved the pick when we drafted him, and after a promising start, I thought he was primed to be one of the best in the league. Waynes was picked on a lot early on but seemed to find his way w more experience. It’s a close call for me, but I’ll pick Waynes, hoping he’s a better fit for our scheme, although I think it would have been hard for many corners to have looked good in last season’s defense.

Wayne's and WJ3 had the same injury, a torn pec. Wayne's is better in zone, while WJ3 struggles in zone, and Lou wants to run zone. Wayne's is the better fit.(and yes I realize there's no apostrophe in Wayne's, but the phone keeps putting it there.)

(05-23-2021, 10:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Wayne's and WJ3 had the same injury, a torn pec. Wayne's is better in zone, while WJ3 struggles in zone, and Lou wants to run zone. Wayne's is the better fit.(and yes I realize there's no apostrophe in Wayne's, but the phone keeps putting it there.)

Trae Waynes is better in Man Coverage than he is in Zone Coverage.