(05-22-2021, 04:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Swagger, moxy, x-factor...whatever you want to label it, does mean something if it comes from a place of hard work, lots of practice, respect for the game and being a leader on the field. That's why other NFL players point to it when talking about Burrow, even though he's only been in the league a year. They recognize he has the drive and talent to fuel that 'swagger' unlike a Manziel.

Right, that makes sense but the further you get from college the more winning you have to do to keep people interested in your potential.  The thing about Burrow that is interesting is that there are real and fantastical assumptions we had about him going into 2020.  Going into 2020 it was realistic and ended up being true that Burrow would instantly revitalize the fanbase. 

The fantastical proposition for 2020 was that Burrow would revitalize John Ross and AJ Green because Ross would be too scared to get on Burrow's bad side by playing like crap and AJ Green would finally have a QB who didn't throw the ball 10 feet over his head. I also feel like Burrow was supposed to do a whole lot more screaming in teammates faces last year, because we were playing some pretty lousy football.

I don't hold it against Burrow that he didn't make John Ross suddenly stop sucking or turn the clock back on AJ Green, the guy isn't a magician. I also don't hold it against him that he didn't blow out his vocal chords screaming at people.  Again, the usual disclaimer is that I'd say there is a 95% chance Burrow is super awesome but this team has got to start winning or else the "Are the Bengals ruining Burrow" talk will start.  I can even see a grim reality where opposing players are mockingly doing the "I'm smoking a cigar!" pose when they sack him.  But this mostly goes back to me wanting ZT out of here if we don't make the playoffs and that's a whole 'nother argument. 

(05-22-2021, 02:36 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree with you that Carson was tougher than a lot give him credit for. The knee injury was so F'd up his own doctor thought his career could be over and he had to get a donor tendon to repair some of the damage. He had the knee repaired in January and was back for game 1 and had a pretty damn good year, even though he took a beating in the first few weeks back. 

I've never doubted his toughness, but I did doubt his leadership skills at times. He wasn't a very vocal guy and didn't really have a commanding presence about him, IMO. Very talented, great arm...just not a natural born leader. 

I think that's where the difference comes into play with Joe. The guy exudes confidence, has swagger that everyone takes notice of and isn't afraid to take charge on the field. He just looks and sounds like a natural leader when he talks and plays. 

I don’t think a player who demands the owner commit to winning lacks confidence.

(05-22-2021, 07:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don’t think a player who demands the owner commit to winning lacks confidence.

I never said he did.

(05-22-2021, 11:21 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Ah, the revisionist history that Palmer had a "laid back contributor mentality" and was somehow not a go-getter or didn't play the game very physically.  Classic butt-hurtedness on display right here.

I honestly wonder if some of you ever watched Palmer play.  Because the alternative is that he hurt your feeling so much that it's distorted reality for you.

Thanks for the personal attack typical mouth on these boards.

My post was about the physical nature with which Burrow had played the game since high school and maybe even earlier but I have not actually seen him play prior to that. The nature of his game is to play all out at all times and in my opinion that will not change with this injury. His game is vastly different than that of Palmer and if you cannot see that I would question if you have ever watched football period.

Palmer for all intensive purposes was a statue player and his 474 career rushing yards would back that up.

(05-22-2021, 01:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Your opinion is that a guy who was a starting QB in the NFL for 14 years and came back from two ACL injuries and had great seasons where he didn't miss a game is "the polar opposite of Burrow?"  I don't quite see that, nor can I grasp why people want Burrow to be so unlike Carson Palmer.

I'm all in on Burrow, but if the guy doesn't run out on the field in week one and gleefully get his knees taken out from under him I'm not going to declare him a loser wimp.



Palmer is a laid back loser like everybody from CA from Tom Brady to Aaron Rodgers...they just love to sit on their asses and lose.   Thankfully, Burrow is a hard working fearless winner from OH just like Brady Quinn.

One of the most over spun and ignorant posts I have ever seen you make. 

(05-22-2021, 09:25 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Thanks for the personal attack typical mouth on these boards.

My post was about the physical nature with which Burrow had played the game since high school and maybe even earlier but I have not actually seen him play prior to that. The nature of his game is to play all out at all times and in my opinion that will not change with this injury. His game is vastly different than that of Palmer and if you cannot see that I would question if you have ever watched football period.

Palmer for all intensive purposes was a statue player and his 474 career rushing yards would back that up.

*for all intents and purposes*

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

(05-22-2021, 05:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Right, that makes sense but the further you get from college the more winning you have to do to keep people interested in your potential.  The thing about Burrow that is interesting is that there are real and fantastical assumptions we had about him going into 2020.  Going into 2020 it was realistic and ended up being true that Burrow would instantly revitalize the fanbase. 

The fantastical proposition for 2020 was that Burrow would revitalize John Ross and AJ Green because Ross would be too scared to get on Burrow's bad side by playing like crap and AJ Green would finally have a QB who didn't throw the ball 10 feet over his head. I also feel like Burrow was supposed to do a whole lot more screaming in teammates faces last year, because we were playing some pretty lousy football.

I don't hold it against Burrow that he didn't make John Ross suddenly stop sucking or turn the clock back on AJ Green, the guy isn't a magician. I also don't hold it against him that he didn't blow out his vocal chords screaming at people.  Again, the usual disclaimer is that I'd say there is a 95% chance Burrow is super awesome but this team has got to start winning or else the "Are the Bengals ruining Burrow" talk will start.  I can even see a grim reality where opposing players are mockingly doing the "I'm smoking a cigar!" pose when they sack him.  But this mostly goes back to me wanting ZT out of here if we don't make the playoffs and that's a whole 'nother argument. 

I must admit it'd be funny as hell if someone went full T.O. sharpie, and pulled a cigar outta their sock, and lit it after sacking Joe. Much better than the whole defense posing and preening after a sack. I don't know if our guys do that. I haven't seen them sack anybody in years.

(05-22-2021, 09:27 PM)OSUfan Wrote: One of the most over spun and ignorant posts I have ever seen you make. 

Meh, I'm judging them by their careers and actions (and what lies ahead for Burrow) and you're just assuming you know the minds of two people you've never met.  On this topic, I'm glad we disagree.

(05-22-2021, 09:58 PM)jason Wrote: I must admit it'd be funny as hell if someone went full T.O. sharpie, and pulled a cigar outta their sock, and lit it after sacking Joe. Much better than the whole defense posing and preening after a sack. I don't know if our guys do that. I haven't seen them sack anybody in years.

I meant more of a mocking sort of "welcome to the NFL, cigar boy" sort of jeer, but I'd be a bit amused if a player actually lit a cigar on the field.  Len Dawson, eat your heart out!

(05-22-2021, 01:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The sarcasm that comes from you sometimes is a little offsetting Nately lol

Nothing against Carson but Burrow is a different sort, sorry if you cannot see it.

Go watch some of Carson's rehab workouts and then come back to tell me he's laid back and not a "go getter". 

(05-23-2021, 01:23 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Go watch some of Carson's rehab workouts and then come back to tell me he's laid back and not a "go getter". 

Don't put words in my mouth Rfaulk. Never said any of that. 

I am saying that Burrow is different than Carson, kind of an obvious observation lol

(05-22-2021, 02:05 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Well, elighten us with the differences you see yourself.  Be specific.  Cuz I haven't seen anything to indicate that Joe Burrow is somehow tougher than Carson Palmer.

And that's not a bad thing.  Carson Palmer was tough as shit.  Look at his injury history and his play throughout his 14 years in the league.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, has the injury history that Carson Palmer had and throws for 4,800 yards at 35 TD's at the age of 36 without being a tough player.

He had an ACL/MCL tear with other damage around his kneecap.  He had a ligament tear in his elbow.  He had a broken nose.  He had a fractured thumb.  He had nerve damage in his shoulder.  And he had, God knows how many concussions playing in an era that farting near a QB didn't result in a roughing the passer penalty.  He also played against the 2000's Ravens and Steelers well over 30 times.

What exactly have we seen in Joe Burrow that somehow makes him tougher, or not as "laid back"?

Mentally Carson would let his mistakes get into his head. He would miss throws after getting hit and throw pick 6's.

Burrow doesn't do this. He is fearless in the pocket and steps into his throws even if he is going to get hit.

Nothing against Carson or any other QB cause this is extremely rare. Brady is about the only QB I see that is more fearless.

Agree, Carson was a tough mutha.

(05-22-2021, 05:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Right, that makes sense but the further you get from college the more winning you have to do to keep people interested in your potential.  The thing about Burrow that is interesting is that there are real and fantastical assumptions we had about him going into 2020.  Going into 2020 it was realistic and ended up being true that Burrow would instantly revitalize the fanbase. 

The fantastical proposition for 2020 was that Burrow would revitalize John Ross and AJ Green because Ross would be too scared to get on Burrow's bad side by playing like crap and AJ Green would finally have a QB who didn't throw the ball 10 feet over his head. I also feel like Burrow was supposed to do a whole lot more screaming in teammates faces last year, because we were playing some pretty lousy football.

I don't hold it against Burrow that he didn't make John Ross suddenly stop sucking or turn the clock back on AJ Green, the guy isn't a magician. I also don't hold it against him that he didn't blow out his vocal chords screaming at people.  Again, the usual disclaimer is that I'd say there is a 95% chance Burrow is super awesome but this team has got to start winning or else the "Are the Bengals ruining Burrow" talk will start.  I can even see a grim reality where opposing players are mockingly doing the "I'm smoking a cigar!" pose when they sack him.  But this mostly goes back to me wanting ZT out of here if we don't make the playoffs and that's a whole 'nother argument. 

Won't happen:

1. Manziel was doing it himself, to be boastful, at any opportunity possible. Burrow was filmed smoking the cigar, he ahs NEVER gone out of his way to flaunt it.
2. Manziel would do it whenever HE had a big play, whether the rest of his team did well or not. Burrow only smoked a cigar in celebration of winning the Nat'l Championship.
3. Manziel is a poor, NFL football player. Burrow is highly-skilled.
4. Most-importantly, Manziel is a sniveling, POS, whom his own father said he wouldn't support him, etc., at his height; he is significantly more-unlikable than Burrow ever has the potential to be.

(05-23-2021, 03:14 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Won't happen:

1. Manziel was doing it himself, to be boastful, at any opportunity possible. Burrow was filmed smoking the cigar, he ahs NEVER gone out of his way to flaunt it.
2. Manziel would do it whenever HE had a big play, whether the rest of his team did well or not. Burrow only smoked a cigar in celebration of winning the Nat'l Championship.
3. Manziel is a poor, NFL football player. Burrow is highly-skilled.
4. Most-importantly, Manziel is a sniveling, POS, whom his own father said he wouldn't support him, etc., at his height; he is significantly more-unlikable than Burrow ever has the potential to be.

Well Manziel is the biggest d-bag on earth so maybe a better example would be Zach Mettenberger posting a selfie like 99.9% of the population and JJ Watt doing a mock selfie pose after he sacked him.  What you are saying makes sense, but it's not like players talking trash and trying to get in each others heads is a fair or logical thing.  I see it more as Burrow has this sort of cigar thing the media ran with, so that's just easy pickings for ridicule.

This also reminds me of that year multiple defensive players got injured mocking Aaron Rodger's discount double check belt move after they sacked im.

(05-23-2021, 02:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't put words in my mouth Rfaulk. Never said any of that.

I am saying that Burrow is different than Carson, kind of an obvious observation lol

Sorry about that Nate. I must have gotten my posts mixed up. 

(05-22-2021, 09:27 PM)OSUfan Wrote: One of the most over spun and ignorant posts I have ever seen you make. 

Well, maybe you can dazzle us with your brilliance and tell us how Jawaan Taylor is gonna be a more athletic Willie Anderson again. Cause your player profiles make Drunk History seem sober, yet more hilarious.

(05-23-2021, 06:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Sorry about that Nate. I must have gotten my posts mixed up. 

Its all good.

Comeback Szn ? @JoeyB pic.twitter.com/g3OyqxO1AK

— Black Sheep Performance (@TrainBSP) May 24, 2021

 

Dang, he's already got that 6 million dollar man workout going.....

Smokin' Joe God Bless him. Want to see how he progresses after that rookie year where he took too many unnecessary hits.