(05-28-2021, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And how many yards passing was Wilson held to?  How many times did they sack him?

You mean Jackson?

He threw for 180 yards, just 3.8 yards below his season average of 183.8 ypg.
They only sacked him 1 time which was a fraction under the pace of the Bengals' last place 17 sacks in 16 games.

So they got absolutely gouged in the running game, Jackson basically threw as many yards as he normally did, and were fractionally worse sack-wise than the pace of the Bengals last place finish.

It wasn't a good game, let alone a "flash of brilliance" or a "damn good job".

(05-28-2021, 03:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't know why, but no one was getting to the QB last year, so I don't hold last year against Hubbard.

He's shown in the previous 2 years that he has serious potential rushing the passer. Solid player in my book.

I agree. He had 6 sacks his rookie year, followed by 8.5 before his down year last year with only 2 sacks, where he also missed time due to injury. But like you say no one was getting sacks last year. We had no DT's and were paper thin at CB. That doesnt help DE's. 


People talk like Lawson is a pro bowler yet he only had 5.5 sacks last year and 2 of them were against weak Philly. He doesnt get many tackles in the run game at all and never has. He gets QB pressures though. Hubbard is a beast against the run on the other hand.

(05-28-2021, 03:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't know why, but no one was getting to the QB last year, so I don't hold last year against Hubbard.

He's shown in the previous 2 years that he has serious potential rushing the passer. Solid player in my book.

He was also playing with only one arm last year pretty much. Fully healthy we should see him being much better rushing the QB.

(05-28-2021, 04:33 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I agree. He had 6 sacks his rookie year, followed by 8.5 before his down year last year with only 2 sacks, where he also missed time due to injury. But like you say no one was getting sacks last year. We had no DT's and were paper thin at CB. That doesnt help DE's. 


People talk like Lawson is a pro bowler yet he only had 5.5 sacks last year and 2 of them were against weak Philly. He doesnt get many tackles in the run game at all and never has. He gets QB pressures though. Hubbard is a beast against the run on the other hand.

Yeah, Hubbard is a much more complete player than Lawson in all facets except rushing the passer, so far.

(05-28-2021, 05:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, Hubbard is a much more complete player than Lawson in all facets except rushing the passer, so far.

Totally agree. I see Lawson as more of a pass rush specialist. Hubbard is just a really good all around DE and I think his pass rush will improve if we see the DL improve around him. I always really liked Lawson, not knocking him at all, but Hubbard is definitely more of a complete player. 

(05-28-2021, 05:33 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Totally agree. I see Lawson as more of a pass rush specialist. Hubbard is just a really good all around DE and I think his pass rush will improve if we see the DL improve around him. I always really liked Lawson, not knocking him at all, but Hubbard is definitely more of a complete player. 

I bet Sam is really working on his pass rush this Offseason. Seeing only 2 sacks last year probably really irks the man.

He is a hardworking sumbitch. He said he was going to be a much better run stopper before last season and he was.

Wouldn't surprise me if he has a great season rushing the passer as you said with better DL around him and being healthy.

Reader, Ogunjobi, Trey, Ossai, Sample, Hubert should help big time over what we saw last year.

(05-28-2021, 01:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I know one thing, Guenther beats the socks off everyone who has followed him.

He was competent at the very least. Can't say that about Teryl Austin or Lou Anarumo.

I have no problem getting rid of Guenther the defense underachieved with him at the helm. 
With that being said I don't think any defensive coordinator could have been successful here. Not addressing LB properly effectively ruined the defense here.

(05-28-2021, 06:02 PM)J24 Wrote: I have no problem getting rid of Guenther the defense underachieved with him at the helm. 

Our defense finished in the top half of the league every year that he was our DC including #2 in '15 and #8 in '16.

(05-28-2021, 08:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Our defense finished in the top half of the league every year that he was our DC including #2 in '15 and #8 in '16.

Still Paulie G ain't no Zim. I like to shoot for the stars myself.

(05-28-2021, 08:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Still Paulie G ain't no Zim. I like to shoot for the stars myself.

Paul Guenther is a decent, cerebral coach. He did a good job of steering the ship that Zimmer had created, after Mike left to coach the Vikings.  However, he does not possess that fiery personality that commands respect that Mike Zimmer does.  That is what I believe ultimately led to the meltdown in the playoff loss to the Steelers in '15.  He just didn't have the ability to reel in the loose cannons the way Zimmer did.

Due to his Xs and Os knowledge of the game, Gruden was quick to snap him up in Las Vegas, but we see how that turned out, as he's already been replaced by Gus Bradley, and is now back where he belongs, working under Zimmer.

(05-28-2021, 08:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Paul Guenther is a decent, cerebral coach. He did a good job of steering the ship that Zimmer had created, after Mike left to coach the Vikings.  However, he does not possess that fiery personality that commands respect that Mike Zimmer does.  That is what I believe ultimately led to the meltdown in the playoff loss to the Steelers in '15.  He just didn't have the ability to reel in the loose cannons the way Zimmer did.

Due to his Xs and Os knowledge of the game, Gruden was quick to snap him up in Las Vegas, but we see how that turned out, as he's already been replaced by Gus Bradley, and is now back where he belongs, working under Zimmer.

Bring them both back here if Taylor and Lou continue to struggle is my vote.

This is a better roster than the Vikes have IMO.

Especially with Burrow.

Agree with everything you said. Zim commands respect, that shit ain't happenin' under him.

(05-28-2021, 08:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Our defense finished in the top half of the league every year that he was our DC including #2 in '15 and #8 in '16.

We never finished top 10 in yards in any of seasons he was coordinator. It was very bend and don't break Defense vs Zimmers which was were not going to bend and we sure as hell not going to break Defense.
I'm not saying that the he was a bad coordinator but it never felt the same after Zimmer left.

(05-28-2021, 04:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You mean Jackson?

He threw for 180 yards, just 3.8 yards below his season average of 183.8 ypg.
They only sacked him 1 time which was a fraction under the pace of the Bengals' last place 17 sacks in 16 games.

So they got absolutely gouged in the running game, Jackson basically threw as many yards as he normally did, and were fractionally worse sack-wise than the pace of the Bengals last place finish.

It wasn't a good game, let alone a "flash of brilliance" or a "damn good job".

This is so misleading.
1.) Lamar only completed 51% of his passes.(2nd lowest game of his season)
2.) He was held to 4.73 yards an attempt in passing also his second lowest of the season.
3.) Lamar was held to 3 yards rushing that game by far the lowest game of the season.

So yeah the defense did a great job of defending Lamar Jackson that game.

(05-28-2021, 10:02 PM)J24 Wrote: We never finished top 10 in yards in any of seasons he was coordinator. It was very bend and don't break Defense vs Zimmers which was were not going to bend and we sure as hell not going to break Defense.
I'm not saying that the he was a bad coordinator but it never felt the same after Zimmer left.

Very valid. I also remember the one game against Peyton and the Broncos vividly where Paulie G blitzed Peyton and Dre had a
couple picks and it was just masterful. You just didn't know where the extra rusher was coming from, never saw that again, think
it was Marv holding Paulie back but no one knows for sure except the inner circles.

(05-28-2021, 10:12 PM)J24 Wrote: This is so misleading.
1.) Lamar only completed 51% of his passes.(2nd lowest game of his season)
2.) He was held to 4.73 yards an attempt in passing also his second lowest of the season.
3.) Lamar was held to 3 yards rushing that game by far the lowest game of the season.

So yeah the defense did a great job of defending Lamar Jackson that game.

Just have to stop the RB's after...

(05-28-2021, 10:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Very valid. I also remember the one game against Peyton and the Broncos vividly where Paulie G blitzed Peyton and Dre had a
couple picks and it was just masterful. You just didn't know where the extra rusher was coming from, never saw that again, think
it was Marv holding Paulie back but no one knows for sure except the inner circles.

If that was the Case then Why did Guenther struggle with the Raiders? 

The biggest problem to me was lack of personal and the core of the 2011-15 defense became much older.

(05-28-2021, 10:12 PM)J24 Wrote: This is so misleading.
1.) Lamar only completed 51% of his passes.(2nd lowest game of his season)
2.) He was held to 4.73 yards an attempt in passing also his second lowest of the season.
3.) Lamar was held to 3 yards rushing that game by far the lowest game of the season.

So yeah the defense did a great job of defending Lamar Jackson that game.

Except he didn't say that they did a good job of defending Lamar Jackson. He said...

Quote:He has shown flashes of brilliance (he actually did a damn good job against the Ravens in their first meeting last year)

Against the Ravens. Which he didn't. They ran for 161 yards at 6.7 yards per carry. They allowed 3 different rushes of 20+ yards. That's like wearing a stab vest in a warzone and when you get shot and it does basically nothing to protect you, you go "yeah, but just look at how well it protects against stabs!"

Then he brought up specifically YARDS and SACKS... Of which the Bengals didn't do well on either. He was his season average in yards, and the Bengals only got 1 sack, which is good for last in the league.

I really hope the personnel turnover helps. We had serious issues rushing the passer and brought in three new starters with that objective in mind. We also completely overhauled the secondary with players who can actually play zone and hopefully have fixed the depth so we never see LeShaun Sims again.

(05-28-2021, 04:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You mean Jackson?

He threw for 180 yards, just 3.8 yards below his season average of 183.8 ypg.
They only sacked him 1 time which was a fraction under the pace of the Bengals' last place 17 sacks in 16 games.

So they got absolutely gouged in the running game, Jackson basically threw as many yards as he normally did, and were fractionally worse sack-wise than the pace of the Bengals last place finish.

It wasn't a good game, let alone a "flash of brilliance" or a "damn good job".

Absolutely gouged in the running game was to the tune of 162 yards, combined with 180 yards passing and they held the Ravens to a total of 342 yards with an offense doing nothing but giving the ball back.  The defense forced the Ravens to punt 4 times.  

I can't find Darius Phillips game log via PFF, but he rated something like a 90 that game as he was all over Jackson.  

27 points
162 rush yards (6.7 per carry)
7/15 conversions on 3rd down

Not exactly what I'd call masterful. And it seems Baltimore learned from that game, because they ran it down our throats without mercy in the next game. We just couldn't stop or even slow them down on the ground.