(05-29-2021, 12:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The team was winless and Andy was the worst starting QB in the NFL

The team was winless and our high paid edge rusher had 1 sack all year as the starter

Trying a different approach was not disrespectful. To not try something different would be disrespectful to the enitre team.

At this point you're just talking to talk and making up stuff I said. Take it elsewhere.. 

We were winless and Dalton might not have been playing well. But for all of that winless streak with Dalton minus the last game we had no rushing attack with no urgency to fix it. When they did focus on it Mixon was 2nd in the league in rush yds. Tyler Boyd was our #1 who I love but we just spent an offseason arguing if Boyd and Higgins are enough. A defense that outside of week 1 was putrid up to that point and Dalton had the most pass attempts in the league. 

My point is that the team had way bigger issues than Dalton that they needed to try and address earlier if they wanted to win. To wait until that point in the season and bench Dalton because your trying to create a spark is ridiculous as hell and just feels like an excuse to me.

Now it all led to Burrow and that's great. But we came out with what feels like the same approach our running game sucked and we were asking Burrow to just throw it a ton. Then when literally everyone is saying we're going to get Burrow killed we just keep plugging along until it actually happens. I know the line wasn't good and we had injuries on top of that but we didn't any adjustments to account for that. 

Everyone says a great QB makes the guys around him better which I think is definitely true. But good coaching does the same and I think this coaching staff has in some spots put they're players in bad situations and then when things go bad just say its the player that sucks.

(05-29-2021, 09:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Absolutely, and the losses last year after he was injured (and all the defensive injuries, AJ Green's sudden decline, etc.) was what helped them to get Ja'Marr Chase.  

2019 - ZT just got back from the super bowl, time to bring that winning culture to Cincy!

2021 - ZT losing a lot sure has netted us some star players!

(05-29-2021, 02:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 2019 - ZT just got back from the super bowl, time to bring that winning culture to Cincy!

2021 - ZT losing a lot sure has netted us some star players!

2022 - everyone is just young, once this team matures we’ll be super bowl bound!

2027 - we have one of the oldest rosters in the league, we need to get younger, then we’ll be super bowl bound!

(05-29-2021, 11:37 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I don’t know about his leadership skills, but he was definitely one of the softest players I’ve ever seen. I cringed every single time he was mic’d up

I guess you forgot the Buffalo game, where he was literally being helped off the field most of the 4th quarter. If that's your idea of soft, well.....

(05-29-2021, 10:11 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Dalton was one of the worst leaders I’ve ever seen at the qb position.

Ok you have officially crossed over from negative into just plane idiocy.  Welcome to my ignore list.  You have absolutely nothing to contribute to these boards.

(05-29-2021, 11:37 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I don’t know about his leadership skills, but he was definitely one of the softest players I’ve ever seen. I cringed every single time he was mic’d up

You might need your vision checked...The guy was getting hit everytime he dropped back and still got up for the next play.

(05-29-2021, 02:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 2019 - ZT just got back from the super bowl, time to bring that winning culture to Cincy!

2021 - ZT losing a lot sure has netted us some star players!

I was trying to put a positive spin on a four win season.  Sorry if that almost made you crack a smile.  

(05-29-2021, 01:44 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: But we came out with what feels like the same approach our running game sucked and we were asking Burrow to just throw it a ton. Then when literally everyone is saying we're going to get Burrow killed we just keep plugging along until it actually happens. I know the line wasn't good and we had injuries on top of that but we didn't any adjustments to account for that. 

Everyone says a great QB makes the guys around him better which I think is definitely true. But good coaching does the same and I think this coaching staff has in some spots put they're players in bad situations and then when things go bad just say its the player that sucks.

You’re onto something here. It looked like Zac Taylor handed Joe Burrow the 2019 Andy Dalton playbook and just had him throw it 50+ times per game. Remember that “almost win” in Seattle in the first game of 2019? Everybody was high on the Bengals at that point but those of us who watched this team for many years looked at the statistics and saw Andy Dalton threw the ball 55 times in that game which is very bad. Let’s not forget the Bengals had the lead for the majority of that game but with no run game to control the clock a last minute loss was a preordained conclusion.

And outstanding quarterback can elevate play around him but that has yet to happen with Joe Burrow. Bad coaching can negate any positive effort from a quarterback. With an improved offensive line and a solid running game I believe Joe Burrow will be far more effective.

(05-30-2021, 09:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I was trying to put a positive spin on a four win season.  Sorry if that almost made you crack a smile.  

I'm all smiled out over high draft picks after the 90s.  I get it, having Burrow and Chase are great prizes for 5 wins in 32 games but I rather hope we aren't spinning this way much longer. 

(05-30-2021, 09:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm all smiled out over high draft picks after the 90s.  I get it, having Burrow and Chase are great prizes for 5 wins in 32 games but I rather hope we aren't spinning this way much longer. 

Amen to that. Teams who play to get high draft picks are losers by definition. I strongly detest Mike Tomlin’s internal organs but at least he has the right attitude about the draft, saying something to the effect of if you’re not drafting 32d you have failed.

(05-30-2021, 09:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm all smiled out over high draft picks after the 90s.  I get it, having Burrow and Chase are great prizes for 5 wins in 32 games but I rather hope we aren't spinning this way much longer. 

What happened the last time they got their QB on a rookie deal and their first true #1 WR since Chad Johnson?  Five straight playoff appearances.  Couldn't get over the top for a number of reasons (although I really think they had a shot in 2015), but now they have the key pieces on at least one side of the ball.  

Cleveland looked to be circling the drain again, but they got their QB, some weapons, and improved their line and they won a playoff game.  It can change that quickly. 

(05-30-2021, 09:11 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You’re onto something here.  It looked like Zac Taylor handed Joe Burrow the 2019 Andy Dalton playbook and just had him throw it 50+ times per game.  Remember that “almost win” in Seattle in the first game of 2019? Everybody was high on the Bengals at that point but those of us who watched this team for many years looked at the statistics and saw Andy Dalton threw the ball 55 times in that game which is very bad.  Let’s not forget the Bengals had the lead for the majority of that game but with no run game to control the clock a last minute loss was a preordained conclusion.

And outstanding quarterback can elevate play around him but that has yet to happen with Joe Burrow.  Bad coaching can negate any positive effort from a quarterback.  With an improved offensive line and a solid running game I believe Joe Burrow will be far more effective.

Yeah I was looking back at game stats from that season. I was more focused on the rushing totals. But your right that week 1 was a perfect example Gio was our leading rusher with 21yds and Mixon had 10yds rushing. I would think a coach/staff coaching they're first game and lose by a point would look back and say what do we need to do to change that outcome to a win. The 31yds combined rushing from your #1 and 2 running back should be a huge focus after that game and it really wasn't. 

I wasn't going into this season with high hopes at all but I'm finding myself seeing the potential of this offense and it's hard not to start really getting excited. But this coaching staff really needs to have more urgency to fix the issues that this team will inevitably have in some areas. If a player or players are struggling with a scheme or role your asking them to play make adjustments to help said player's. 

(05-29-2021, 01:44 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: To wait until that point in the season and bench Dalton because your trying to create a spark is ridiculous as hell and just feels like an excuse to me.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I always took that move as them wanting see what they had in Ryan Finley so they would know to proceed in the offseason.

I think at that point they knew Andy Dalton wasn't going to be back for 2020.  He carried no dead weight and presented 18 million in savings.  And remember, they just traded up to draft Finley in the 4th round.

It made perfect sense to me.  The season was all but over and it's understandable they'd want to get a good look at Finley so they could figure out how they wanted to go about replacing Dalton in the offseason.

I really don't think it's was trying to create a spark or something like trying to lose or anything like that.  I think it was as simple as "what do we have to lose" and "why not get a good look at the new kid" before they commit to drafting another QB or signing a high dollar free agent.

(05-30-2021, 09:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What happened the last time they got their QB on a rookie deal and their first true #1 WR since Chad Johnson?  Five straight playoff appearances.  Couldn't get over the top for a number of reasons (although I really think they had a shot in 2015), but now they have the key pieces on at least one side of the ball.  

Cleveland looked to be circling the drain again, but they got their QB, some weapons, and improved their line and they won a playoff game.  It can change that quickly. 

True. Still, maybe we should stink for one more season just to make sure we can add another elite talent.  Could get a new HC too. 


The Browns had a bunch of high picks that won 6 games but then got got a new GM and HC that seemed to finally turn things around.  


I legit get what you are saying but it doesn't fit on well with the standard off season optimism winning culture players wanting to be here and win stuff.  ZT and his culture of high draft picks needs to stop.  Consolation prizes abound. 

(05-30-2021, 11:44 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Maybe I'm nuts, but I always took that move as them wanting see what they had in Ryan Finley so they would know to proceed in the offseason.

I think at that point they knew Andy Dalton wasn't going to be back for 2020.  He carried no dead weight and presented 18 million in savings.  And remember, they just traded up to draft Finley in the 4th round.

It made perfect sense to me.  The season was all but over and it's understandable they'd want to get a good look at Finley so they could figure out how they wanted to go about replacing Dalton in the offseason.

I really don't think it's was trying to create a spark or something like trying to lose or anything like that.  I think it was as simple as "what do we have to lose" and "why not get a good look at the new kid" before they commit to drafting another QB or signing a high dollar free agent.

I agree that this was probably the thought process. Zac traded up to grab Finley. I think he wanted to see if he had something there or were they going to need to get another QB. All in all, it's not bad logic.

While it probably was not Zac's fault or at least not all his fault, if that was the route he wanted to go and knowing Dalton wasn't the QB going forward it should have been done sooner so they could get something for Dalton. I don't have the link anymore, but it was said the Bears were willing to trade for him. The #1OA PLUS additional draft picks PLUS the cap savings is what a competent front office would have pulled off. Instead we waited way too long to make the announcement preventing a real chance of a trade. Then everyone knew they were drafting Burrow so no one needed to trade for Dalton. The front office completely misplayed the entire thing.

(05-30-2021, 11:44 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Maybe I'm nuts, but I always took that move as them wanting see what they had in Ryan Finley so they would know to proceed in the offseason.

I think at that point they knew Andy Dalton wasn't going to be back for 2020.  He carried no dead weight and presented 18 million in savings.  And remember, they just traded up to draft Finley in the 4th round.

It made perfect sense to me.  The season was all but over and it's understandable they'd want to get a good look at Finley so they could figure out how they wanted to go about replacing Dalton in the offseason.

I really don't think it's was trying to create a spark or something like trying to lose or anything like that.  I think it was as simple as "what do we have to lose" and "why not get a good look at the new kid" before they commit to drafting another QB or signing a high dollar free agent.

No I agree. I'm sure that was the motive behind the move. I was okay with it until we looked like we were gonna go winless and let a very beatable Pittsburgh team get the win against us. Then I was screaming to put Dalton back in to get a win. But when you look back at it and see what we were asking Dalton to do it was ridiculous. 

We had no running game we had a lack luster receiving core and outside of week 1 a defense that was absolutely terrible. I was gonna say we were asking him to be a top 5 QB in the league but now that I've written it down I don't even think that's accurate. I mean I don't know if there's a single QB in the league you would ask to win with what Dalton was handed.

(05-30-2021, 09:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:
What happened the last time they got their QB on a rookie deal and their first true #1 WR since Chad Johnson?  Five straight playoff appearances.  Couldn't get over the top for a number of reasons (although I really think they had a shot in 2015), but now they have the key pieces on at least one side of the ball.  

Cleveland looked to be circling the drain again, but they got their QB, some weapons, and improved their line and they won a playoff game.  It can change that quickly. 

Although that team was 1 year removed from a divison title with a good defense and excellent offensive line.

(05-30-2021, 11:49 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I agree that this was probably the thought process. Zac traded up to grab Finley. I think he wanted to see if he had something there or were they going to need to get another QB. All in all, it's not bad logic.

While it probably was not Zac's fault or at least not all his fault, if that was the route he wanted to go and knowing Dalton wasn't the QB going forward it should have been done sooner so they could get something for Dalton. I don't have the link anymore, but it was said the Bears were willing to trade for him. The #1OA PLUS additional draft picks PLUS the cap savings is what a competent front office would have pulled off. Instead we waited way too long to make the announcement preventing a real chance of a trade. Then everyone knew they were drafting Burrow so no one needed to trade for Dalton. The front office completely misplayed the entire thing.

Nobody wanted the contract including us. Today Dalton isn't worth 18 million

(05-30-2021, 09:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What happened the last time they got their QB on a rookie deal and their first true #1 WR since Chad Johnson?  Five straight playoff appearances.  Couldn't get over the top for a number of reasons (although I really think they had a shot in 2015), but now they have the key pieces on at least one side of the ball.  

Cleveland looked to be circling the drain again, but they got their QB, some weapons, and improved their line and they won a playoff game.  It can change that quickly. 

Replying to ^^^

(05-30-2021, 12:07 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Although that team was 1 year removed from a divison title with a good defense and excellent offensive line.

How quickly we forget that in 2011 no member of these forums predicted we would win more than 7 games, and those were the outliers.  Most fans of these boards had us winning 2-4 games, and then entire world of pundits had us at 4 wins or less AND the worst team in the league.

People either forget or have selective memory.  I wonder which it is.

(05-29-2021, 11:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Benching Dalton for Ryan Finley was disrespect.

Dropping Dunlap to third string behind guys he was outproducing was disrespect.

lol

No, it wasn't. Not in either case. Dalton was stinking it up and they needed to evaluate Finley. Finley played worse than Dalton, so they brought Dalton back in to start. 

Dunlap was not playing within his role of the defense and refused to maintain his gap responsibilities because he just wanted sacks, so they benched him.