I find different numbers at different sites, but Bengals have at least $18 million in cap space.  I don't see us signing any more expensive free agents.  We might sign a vet WR cut from another team or something like that but it won't cost much.  Plus any free agent we bring in will bump the previous #51 player who makes at least $850K.

Many big Bengal contract extensions have been announce during training camp/pre-season.  I predict we will get a contract extension done with either Bates or Hubbard.  It will be a bad sign if we don't.

Obviously Bates is the #1 priority.  Hubbard is a good player deserving an extension.  Bates is elite.

But if we sign Hubbard and not Bates will we really know the reason.  If Bates just does not trust a long-term deal with the Bengals he will never say anything like that publicly.  Hubbard is more of a local boy who grew up a Bengal fan.  Obviously he will be much more likely to take a chance on a long term deal with the Bengals.

Every NFL team prefers to keep good players they have developed instead of constantly taking chances on free agents from other teams.  That is why such a small percentage of really good players become free agents in their prime.  I have a feeling the Bengals will make a strong push to extend Bates, but if they can't get him then they pretty much have to lock up Hubbard for a few more years.

I will be really concerned if we don't get a deal with either one of them.

BTW other than Bates and Hubbard these are the other significant Bengals who will be free agents in 2022 with '21 salary

RT Riley Rieff.......... 7.5 M
DT Larry Ogunjobi... 6.2 M
TE C.J. Uzomah...... 6.1 M

(06-07-2021, 09:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I find different numbers at different sites, but Bengals have at least $18 million in cap space.  I don't see us signing any more expensive free agents.  We might sign a vet WR cut from another team or something like that but it won't cost much.  Plus any free agent we bring in will bump the previous #51 player who makes at least $850K.

Many big Bengal contract extensions have been announce during training camp/pre-season.  I predict we will get a contract extension done with either Bates or Hubbard.  It will be a bad sign if we don't.

Obviously Bates is the #1 priority.  Hubbard is a good player deserving an extension.  Bates is elite.

But if we sign Hubbard and not Bates will we really know the reason.  If Bates just does not trust a long-term deal with the Bengals he will never say anything like that publicly.  Hubbard is more of a local boy who grew up a Bengal fan.  Obviously he will be much more likely to take a chance on a long term deal with the Bengals.

Every NFL team prefers to keep good players they have developed instead of constantly taking chances on free agents from other teams.  That is why such a small percentage of really good players become free agents in their prime.  I have a feeling the Bengals will make a strong push to extend Bates, but if they can't get him then they pretty much have to lock up Hubbard for a few more years.

I will be really concerned if we don't get a deal with either one of them.

I don't know that we do.  With the cap going up, Bates and his agent may gamble on a bigger pay day, not a slight vs Cincy.  Hubbard may be the safer bet to sign, but I don't think it's an either or, they have enough to keep both.  

I want to see Bates extended. I'm okay with not signing anyone else to ensure we make it happen. Hubbard would be a good resign as well. We could also wait on Hubbard and see how he does this year before signing him. Bates is definitely deserving of high end money though. Get it done.

If Rieff proves he still has it, then believe he would be a priority as well

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have the best safety in the AFC North? What a culture shock from the norm. I definitely want Bates locked up. He's elite.

(06-07-2021, 09:55 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Wouldn't it be refreshing to have the best safety in the AFC North? What a culture shock from the norm. I definitely want Bates locked up. He's elite.

I think that most of us can agree that Bates is the high priority to get an extension done with.  However, just as the OP pointed out, he has to want to remain a Bengal in order for that to happen.

I think some of it will depend on how these guys perceive the team as improving. If they believe we're right on the verge of being great they might sign regardless of a few hundred thousand bucks. Everyone loves to play for a winner especially if its the team they've been with and helped make it great. 
On the other hand if they perceive the team as piecemealing eveything along the way all bets are off. 

(06-07-2021, 09:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW other than Bates and Hubbard these are the other significant Bengals who will be free agents in 2022 with '21 salary

RT Riley Rieff.......... 7.5 M
DT Larry Ogunjobi... 6.2 M
TE C.J. Uzomah...... 6.1 M

What do you think is a fair deal for both Hubbard and Bates?

Hubbard is solid, but he should be a 3 mil a year guy. He's replaceable. 

(06-07-2021, 09:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I find different numbers at different sites, but Bengals have at least $18 million in cap space.  I don't see us signing any more expensive free agents.  We might sign a vet WR cut from another team or something like that but it won't cost much.  Plus any free agent we bring in will bump the previous #51 player who makes at least $850K.

Many big Bengal contract extensions have been announce during training camp/pre-season.  I predict we will get a contract extension done with either Bates or Hubbard.  It will be a bad sign if we don't.

Obviously Bates is the #1 priority.  Hubbard is a good player deserving an extension.  Bates is elite.

But if we sign Hubbard and not Bates will we really know the reason.  If Bates just does not trust a long-term deal with the Bengals he will never say anything like that publicly.  Hubbard is more of a local boy who grew up a Bengal fan.  Obviously he will be much more likely to take a chance on a long term deal with the Bengals.

Every NFL team prefers to keep good players they have developed instead of constantly taking chances on free agents from other teams.  That is why such a small percentage of really good players become free agents in their prime.  I have a feeling the Bengals will make a strong push to extend Bates, but if they can't get him then they pretty much have to lock up Hubbard for a few more years.

I will be really concerned if we don't get a deal with either one of them.

Hubbard is tough, because he's coming off a down year. He had 6 sacks as a rotational player as a rookie and 8.5 in '19, but only 2 last year.  I would say his best bet is to try to regain his '19 form before negotiating an extension.  

Bates is the big one.  Obviously, he's an elite talent and will need to be paid like one.  

As far as FA moves go, I could see them resigning Atkins on the cheap once he can pass a physical.

Good post, for me it's a no brainer. The smart money here is to extend Hubbard to a 5 million per year deal, as he's not an elite DE, he's good but can be replaced via draft if need be. Bates OTOH is elite!!! why not him you say, well we can use the franchise tag on him as safety tags are far from expensive and work out an extension during the offseason. Either way I think Hubbard gets extended before the season starts, its usually the Bengals way of doing things before the season opener!

I think the Bengals should be looking closely at Jurrell Casey as a rotational 3-tech to pair with Ogunjobi. He's 32 years old, but I could see him signing a one-year deal. I know they have Mike Daniels, but I would feel better if Casey were signed as well.

As far as Bates and Hubbard go, I am pretty sure the organization will do everything they can to get them long-term deals. I am no cap-ologist, but they tend to front-load deals with good signing bonuses to make the contract less of a burden as time goes on and the cap expands. Based on the crazy rumors of $300 million caps, it would make sense to get them done sooner than later.

The big one on the horizon will be Burrow's contract.

(06-08-2021, 07:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think the Bengals should be looking closely at Jurrell Casey as a rotational 3-tech to pair with Ogunjobi.  He's 32 years old, but I could see him signing a one-year deal.  I know they have Mike Daniels, but I would feel better if Casey were signed as well.

As far as Bates and Hubbard go, I am pretty sure the organization will do everything they can to get them long-term deals.  I am no cap-ologist, but they tend to front-load deals with good signing bonuses to make the contract less of a burden as time goes on and the cap expands.  Based on the crazy rumors of $300 million caps, it would make sense to get them done sooner than later.  

The big one on the horizon will be Burrow's contract.

No doubt that is the big one looming in the next few years. Whatever we have to do to lock Burrow up long term will need done for sure. It will also be interesting to see how we handle the WR position in the coming years, with basically 3 WR's who could be pro bowl caliber. Do we keep all 3 or let one go? Of course Chase still has a lot to prove on the field, but looking ahead a few years it may be hard to keep all 3 if he pans out like expected. Tee and Boyd have already proven they are top shelf WRs, and Tee looks to be taking a big step up according to reports. 

I think Hubbard will be pretty easy to sign to a team friendly deal. Bates will get more money for sure though, and I hope we sign him. He seems to want to be here but who knows.

(06-07-2021, 10:47 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: What do you think is a fair deal for both Hubbard and Bates?

Hubbard is solid, but he should be a 3 mil a year guy. He's replaceable. 

Is this a moment where you tell us gas should also be $0.25/gal again, and a new car should only be $2,000? Lol

Solomon Thomas: $3.25m/yr
Kerry Hyder: $3.4m/yr
Harry Anderson: $3.5m/yr
Benson Mayowa: $3.81m/yr
Takkarist McKinley: $4.25m/yr
Deatrich Wise: $5.5m/yr

That's all the veteran 4-3 DEs making $3-6m/yr. Hubbard is going to get paid more than all of those guys barring some huge injury or other on-field collapse in 2021.

(06-08-2021, 11:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Is this a moment where you tell us gas should also be $0.25/gal again, and a new car should only be $2,000? Lol

Solomon Thomas: $3.25m/yr
Kerry Hyder: $3.4m/yr
Harry Anderson: $3.5m/yr
Benson Mayowa: $3.81m/yr
Takkarist McKinley: $4.25m/yr
Deatrich Wise: $5.5m/yr

That's all the veteran 4-3 DEs making $3-6m/yr. Hubbard is going to get paid more than all of those guys barring some huge injury or other on-field collapse in 2021.

None of them are worth those and neither is Hubbard. Still didn't answer my question

(06-08-2021, 11:52 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: None of them are worth those and neither is Hubbard. Still didn't answer my question

Hubbard's worth more than that. As he is another MJ, give him something around MJs two contracts (between 6 mil and 8.7 mil) and that's right where he's worth.

And he'll probably get more than that, a year.

(06-07-2021, 10:47 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: What do you think is a fair deal for both Hubbard and Bates?

Hubbard is solid, but he should be a 3 mil a year guy. He's replaceable. 

You pay Hubbard the league average or better for a DE since he's a solid starter, not a backup on his 3rd team.

$3 million per year is laughable.

I don't know what the average salary is for a DE, but that's the minimum you could offer him.

(06-08-2021, 11:52 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: None of them are worth those and neither is Hubbard. Still didn't answer my question

You are  a little out of touch with how the NFL and salaries work then.  Those guys are worth that kind of money because that is what veteran backups generally make for a DE>

Sam Hubbards contract extension would be in that 7.5 to 9m range right now. He may bet on himself though... If Hubbard and the rest of the Bengals Defensive Line stay healthy along with a more balanced team overall Hubbard can get more interior pass rush opportunities and possibly break that double digit sack mark with 10 or 11 sacks. If that happens he would be in that 11 or 12m a year range.

(06-08-2021, 12:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Sam Hubbards contract extension would be in that 7.5 to 9m range right now. He may bet on himself though... If Hubbard and the rest of the Bengals Defensive Line stay healthy along with a more balanced team overall Hubbard can get more interior pass rush opportunities and possibly break that double digit sack mark with 10 or 11 sacks. If that happens he would be in that 11 or 12m a year range.

He had 2 sacks last year guys.  2 sacks.  You guys want to throw 7-9 million at 2 sacks and a good run defender?  You can find that in rounds 3-6 if you start them 13 games like Sam did.