3 months later, and here we are trying to talk ourselves into being ok with Michael Jordan possibly starting at guard again.

At some point this team will take o-line seriously. I think.

(06-13-2021, 01:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3 months later, and here we are trying to talk ourselves into being ok with Michael Jordan possibly starting at guard again.

At some point this team will take o-line seriously. I think.

Wouldn't hold your breath while waiting. 

I hope he makes a comeback and plays well from this point going forward. I'm glad he's not in line to start though. If he beats out the likes of Carman, XSF and Spain, then he deserves to start but he shouldn't be expected to provide anything at this point.

(06-13-2021, 01:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3 months later, and here we are trying to talk ourselves into being ok with Michael Jordan possibly starting at guard again.

At some point this team will take o-line seriously. I think.

Uh, I think most of us want to see all our players improve...

Let the best players start is my opinion.

You wanted Thuney, Orlando Brown in FA and we got Riley Reiff who had less penalties and allowed less sacks than both.

If Jordan does a magical turn around and stays low with technique I am not hating on the guy.

BTW, I doubt he starts at all this season. He has Carman, Spain, XSF in front of him and they could be real good.

Carman is very underrated to you and a lot of people I still see. I studied up on this guy thoroughly before the Draft.

Jackson Carman could be the best OL in the entire Draft, better than Sewell. No one mauls like Carman.

(06-13-2021, 01:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3 months later, and here we are trying to talk ourselves into being ok with Michael Jordan possibly starting at guard again.

At some point this team will take o-line seriously. I think.

So then what happens if the proverbial "light comes on"?  As in he takes well to the coaching, improves his technique, and wins the job, outright?

I mean, other than drafting Jackson Carman, the team did nothing to upgrade from last season's roster personnel at Guard.

(06-13-2021, 01:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3 months later, and here we are trying to talk ourselves into being ok with Michael Jordan possibly starting at guard again.

At some point this team will take o-line seriously. I think.

Where did anyone say anything about him starting?

(06-13-2021, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So then what happens if the proverbial "light comes on"?  As in he takes well to the coaching, improves his technique, and wins the job, outright?

I mean, other than drafting Jackson Carman, the team did nothing to upgrade from last season's roster personnel at Guard.

I think bringing back Spain for an entire Offseason upgrades the Guard position.

He was brought in on a Thursday in the latter part of the season and played decent and could play much better then what we 
saw last season being able to actually prepare and learn a scheme under Pollack.

(06-13-2021, 06:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think bringing back Spain for an entire Offseason upgrades the Guard position.

He was brought in on a Thursday in the latter part of the season and played decent and could play much better then what we 
saw last season being able to actually prepare and learn a scheme under Pollack.

Yeah, you are correct.  I sometimes forget about that being the case.  I kinda hope that Spain and XSF win the starting jobs in camp, and allow Carman to develop until XSF goes down with his annual injury that's bound to happen.

(06-13-2021, 07:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, you are correct.  I sometimes forget about that being the case.  I kinda hope that Spain and XSF win the starting jobs in camp, and allow Carman to develop until XSF goes down with his annual injury that's bound to happen.

I think Carman wins the RG spot right off the bat. Let the best man win the LG position between Spain and XSF.

Carman is sound and made to play Guard. A mauler that once he gets his hands on you, you are pancaked.

He won't have to face speed rushers either playing on the inside.

(06-13-2021, 01:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3 months later, and here we are trying to talk ourselves into being ok with Michael Jordan possibly starting at guard again.

At some point this team will take o-line seriously. I think.

(06-13-2021, 01:59 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Wouldn't hold your breath while waiting. 

They'll win enough games to pick 10th next year, and then trade down and get the 4th best option at OL and we can hear about how they spent a 1st round pick on OL again and it didn't work out...

Meanwhile, people will continue to ignore that the 1st round picks that didn't work on OL (Ced, Price, etc) were not the first OL taken and that guys taken earlier worked out. When you have the shot at the top guy at a broken position you can't pass on it, unless you want to never really fix the position. I'm cautiously optimistic about Carman at guard, which means for the 2022 starting OL, they'd have 1 guy you can count on. With the cap going up, if Reiff excels the bidding will be high, Jonah needs to show he isn't Eifert, Hopkins needs to show he recovered, and the other guard spot has Spain as FA to be, Jordan and XSF the IR master. Just so frustrating to look at.

(06-13-2021, 07:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: They'll win enough games to pick 10th next year, and then trade down and get the 4th best option at OL and we can hear about how they spent a 1st round pick on OL again and it didn't work out...

Meanwhile, people will continue to ignore that the 1st round picks that didn't work on OL (Ced, Price, etc) were not the first OL taken and that guys taken earlier worked out. When you have the shot at the top guy at a broken position you can't pass on it, unless you want to never really fix the position. I'm cautiously optimistic about Carman at guard, which means for the 2022 starting OL, they'd have 1 guy you can count on. With the cap going up, if Reiff excels the bidding will be high, Jonah needs to show he isn't Eifert, Hopkins needs to show he recovered, and the other guard spot has Spain as FA to be, Jordan and XSF the IR master. Just so frustrating to look at.

Okay Nostradamus. Reiff, Carman, Spain, XSF, D'Ante Smith, Trey Hill, and another year on Adeniji's shoulders under Pollack 
might not be as frustrating as you see right now. If Zac Taylor continues to struggle even with solid play in the trenches I will
jump on your sad train. In the mean time I like the players added on both sides of the ball Murdock.

Don't understand acting like they didn't address the OL at all like you guys are saying. That is a lot of new names.

I know, Spain and XSF were here last year but one was injured and the other brought in late in the year.

(06-13-2021, 03:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Uh, I think most of us want to see all our players improve...

Let the best players start is my opinion.

You wanted Thuney, Orlando Brown in FA and we got Riley Reiff who had less penalties and allowed less sacks than both.

If Jordan does a magical turn around and stays low with technique I am not hating on the guy.

BTW, I doubt he starts at all this season. He has Carman, Spain, XSF in front of him and they could be real good.

Carman is very underrated to you and a lot of people I still see. I studied up on this guy thoroughly before the Draft.

Jackson Carman could be the best OL in the entire Draft, better than Sewell. No one mauls like Carman.

You started getting a little silly at the end there, Nate. 

(06-13-2021, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So then what happens if the proverbial "light comes on"?  As in he takes well to the coaching, improves his technique, and wins the job, outright?

I mean, other than drafting Jackson Carman, the team did nothing to upgrade from last season's roster personnel at Guard.

If his body transformation starts him on the road to being a PFF 70+ score type guy and he wins the job, good for him. I don't care what he's done in the past if he comes in, starts throwing guys around and wins the job. 

(06-13-2021, 07:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: They'll win enough games to pick 10th next year, and then trade down and get the 4th best option at OL and we can hear about how they spent a 1st round pick on OL again and it didn't work out...

I can not imagine loving to be miserable so much that I actually create fantasy scenarios to make me more miserable.

(06-13-2021, 07:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote:  When you have the shot at the top guy at a broken position you can't pass on it, unless you want to never really fix the position.

Right, just look at how stupid the Chiefs look for trading up in the draft to take a QB, but instead of moving up to take Trubisky they settled for Mahomes.  Or when we passed on Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, and Jake Locker to take Dalton.

(06-13-2021, 07:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote:  which means for the 2022 starting OL, they'd have 1 guy you can count on.

When did they cancel free agency and the draft for 2022?  I had not heard about that.  Or are you just going back to your fantasy world again to get your whine on.

(06-13-2021, 07:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay Nostradamus. Reiff, Carman, Spain, XSF, D'Ante Smith, Trey Hill, and another year on Adeniji's shoulders under Pollack 
might not be as frustrating as you see right now. If Zac Taylor continues to struggle even with solid play in the trenches I will
jump on your sad train. In the mean time I like the players added on both sides of the ball Murdock.

Don't understand acting like they didn't address the OL at all like you guys are saying. That is a lot of new names.

I know, Spain and XSF were here last year but one was injured and the other brought in late in the year.

They certainly addressed the OL by rehiring Pollack, bringing in Reiff, and drafting Carmen, Smith and Hill.  We won't find out if it's enough until the season.

I just find it ironic that folks are making a big deal about getting the first OL off the board because we can't count on Jonah...who was the first OL off the board in his class.

OL is a position group where guys take years to develop.  The Bengals only have 4 OL that aren't on their rookie deals.  Folks want to build the OL through the draft, but they don't want to allow draft picks time to develop.  

(06-13-2021, 08:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: They certainly addressed the OL by rehiring Pollack, bringing in Reiff, and drafting Carmen, Smith and Hill.  We won't find out if it's enough until the season.

I just find it ironic that folks are making a big deal about getting the first OL off the board because we can't count on Jonah...who was the first OL off the board in his class.

OL is a position group where guys take years to develop.  The Bengals only have 4 OL that aren't on their rookie deals.  Folks want to build the OL through the draft, but they don't want to allow draft picks time to develop.

And when we do bring in a guy like Reiff that buys us a year (at least) to develop the young players that’s somehow no good either.

People do realize Jordan is at the bottom of the Guard depth chart right? We have XSF, Spain and Carman all ahead of him at least. Price and/or Hill may also be in that group.

(06-13-2021, 09:43 PM)Joelist Wrote: People do realize Jordan is at the bottom of the Guard depth chart right? We have XSF, Spain and Carman all ahead of him at least. Price and/or Hill may also be in that group.

Which is also very true.  There's realistically as much chance that he doesn't make it through final cuts as there is that he's starting next year.

(06-13-2021, 07:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You started getting a little silly at the end there, Nate. 

How so Rfaulk? Jackson Carman was arguably the best mauling, run blocking O-lineman in the Draft and I saw this way 
before we drafted him. Synric and me both wanted him in the 2nd round and most that evaluated him only thought he 
dropped to the 2nd cause of the injury that he is now over with.

Not saying Carman is just going to be great right off the bat but neither is Sewell as a rookie.

We will see who is the best OL out of this class, not betting against Carman who is just made to play Guard.

His only weakness was speed rushers which he won't have to worry about on the inside.

(06-13-2021, 08:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: They certainly addressed the OL by rehiring Pollack, bringing in Reiff, and drafting Carmen, Smith and Hill.  We won't find out if it's enough until the season.

I just find it ironic that folks are making a big deal about getting the first OL off the board because we can't count on Jonah...who was the first OL off the board in his class.

OL is a position group where guys take years to develop.  The Bengals only have 4 OL that aren't on their rookie deals.  Folks want to build the OL through the draft, but they don't want to allow draft picks time to develop.  

Yes, lets see how these players develop before judging. They addressed OL it just might not be the way some wanted them to.

It is all preference.

(06-13-2021, 08:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And when we do bring in a guy like Reiff that buys us a year (at least) to develop the young players that’s somehow no good either.

Yep, not good enough, never is. Even if Reiff plays great it won't matter. Didn't address OL at all according to some on here.

If Reiff plays well and we re-sign him which I expect the team has done well.

We just need to see better coaching from Taylor and Lou IMO.

This is where my complaints lie.

(06-13-2021, 09:43 PM)Joelist Wrote: People do realize Jordan is at the bottom of the Guard depth chart right? We have XSF, Spain and Carman all ahead of him at least. Price and/or Hill may also be in that group.

Yeah, no reason to hate on the guy being a better depth piece, he might not even make the team if he isn't up to snuff.

Sounds like he is working his ass off. I like it.

(06-14-2021, 04:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: How so Rfaulk? Jackson Carman was arguably the best mauling, run blocking O-lineman in the Draft and I saw this way 
before we drafted him. Synric and me both wanted him in the 2nd round and most that evaluated him only thought he 
dropped to the 2nd cause of the injury that he is now over with.

Not saying Carman is just going to be great right off the bat but neither is Sewell as a rookie.

We will see who is the best OL out of this class, not betting against Carman who is just made to play Guard.

His only weakness was speed rushers which he won't have to worry about on the inside.


Yes, lets see how these players develop before judging. They addressed OL it just might not be the way some wanted them to.

It is all preference.


Yep, not good enough, never is. Even if Reiff plays great it won't matter. Didn't address OL at all according to some on here.

If Reiff plays well and we re-sign him which I expect the team has done well.

We just need to see better coaching from Taylor and Lou IMO.

This is where my complaints lie.


Yeah, no reason to hate on the guy being a better depth piece, he might not even make the team if he isn't up to snuff.

Sounds like he is working his ass off. I like it.

I will say again, I love the Carman pick and I agree I think he will be a good long-term solution at guard. The only two issues I see here with the pick are his back injury which could shorten his career a little but that is a problem years down the road, and the talk of moving him to RT one day. As you even said, speed rushers are an issue for him and if the plan is Reiff for a year then kick Carman outside, that is a poor plan.

As for the Reiff signing. It is a good move for the 2021 season as long as he gets back to form, hell even not at form he is an upgrade over Hart. The concern I have and I think several other posters have is that he is on a 1 year deal. It is a bandage, sure they can try to re-sign him next season but if he plays well he will have more offers than just the Bengals. It's a gamble and a risky one at that. 

Continuity is so important for a good O-line, you hear it from every expert. Guys have to get comfortable with the guys playing next to him and settling in. My issue with the Reiff move is that it was a 1 year deal... if he is the answer, and you believe he is an upgrade give him a 2 or 3 year deal so the revolving door of pieces on the line stops. If Spain is a guy you think solves things, again... why a 1 year deal and why was he around on the FA pile so long? It just feels like the team is doing the same old song and dance, focus on the shiny parts and keep hoping they strike gold with random pieces at the most important spot outside the QB. It's frustrating. The line has struggled since they let Whit go. And when they do go after a guy (Jonah Williams) it was because their first choice (Bush) was taken right out from under them by Pitt and then the guy can't stay healthy. It's just maddening to watch.