The line may give up less sacks if we don’t drop back 50 times a game. Just sayin….

(06-19-2021, 07:12 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller of SXM NFL Radio did the breakdown of the Bengals OL yesterday.  They had Williams for 5 sacks.

Ok. And how many did they have for Moses?  Different sources credit sacks allowed differently.  Some will or won't credit an OL with a sack allowed on a coverage sack, for example.  If Jonah had 5 by their system, Moses could have have 8-9 if graded with the same system.

(06-19-2021, 04:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: Ok. And how many did they have for Moses?  Different sources credit sacks allowed differently.  Some will or won't credit an OL with a sack allowed on a coverage sack, for example.  If Jonah had 5 by their system, Moses could have have 8-9 if graded with the same system.

They were breaking down the Bengals OL, not WFT or even guys who formerly played for WFT.  They gave Jonah a rating of 2 out of a possible 4 points in their grading system.  Noting that Williams not only needs to stay healthy, but he also has a bit of development to do, in order to merit that 1st round draft selection.

(06-19-2021, 11:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If you want the 5 best guys on the field, you get all three of them out there.  Reiff is the oldest, with the lowest pass-blocking grade of the 3.  He is also only here on a one-year deal.  If they gave Moses a 3 year deal, you don't have to draft an OT with your first pick next year.  You could draft a CB.  Or a LB if this crop of CB really shows.  

Note:  Pick 32 probably won't have a starting-caliber OT.  

Surprised a guy like Reiff has a lower pass blocking grade than Jonah and Moses honestly.

Gave up less sacks and penalties than both Thuney and Orlando Brown last year.

(06-19-2021, 12:13 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I read another post that said NYJ were close to signing Moses but the hang up was he wont play guard.   

Eh, whatevs.

If he won't play Guard I don't care.

(06-19-2021, 10:20 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: They are called homers

No, you guys are called doomers without any solutions to anything at all.

Tell me me what you would do different than bringing in Pollack, Reiff, Carman, D'ante Smith, Trey Hill and retaining Spain?

I honestly want to know?

(06-19-2021, 02:18 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: And if you point out the fact that all this hope hinges on a lot of unknowns and "ifs" and don't get all rah-rah... you're called negative and a downer. It's a wonderful world lol.

Everything hinges on this every frickin' year man! Where you been? If we are hit by injuries we need to fall back on depth 
and coaching. Pretty frickin' simple. You don't like Reiff, Carman and all the guys they brought in or Pollack or Jonah...

Us homers get it. It is a wonderful world when you get it and aren't negative about anything without ANY solutions.

What would you do different besides of course just drafting Sewell over Chase?

(06-19-2021, 04:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: Ok. And how many did they have for Moses?  Different sources credit sacks allowed differently.  Some will or won't credit an OL with a sack allowed on a coverage sack, for example.  If Jonah had 5 by their system, Moses could have have 8-9 if graded with the same system.

A sack is a sack. If someone is making the call on coverage sack or not, i'd avoid that site. 

I do know PFF doesn't account for 1/2 sacks. That is, if two defenders get there at the same time and get a normal 1/2 sack credit each, PFF counts it as one sack for each player. 

Dunno if that applies to Oline or not...just sayin. 

(06-19-2021, 12:13 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I read another post that said NYJ were close to signing Moses but the hang up was he wont play guard.   

I read that as he doesn't want to get paid like a guard.  If he is a strong character guy, I have no problem paying him a three year, $45 million dollar deal and releasing XSF to make it less of a hit financially. 

(06-19-2021, 02:18 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: And if you point out the fact that all this hope hinges on a lot of unknowns and "ifs" and don't get all rah-rah... you're called negative and a downer. It's a wonderful world lol.

Shouldn't you be whining about the 2022 O-line?

(06-19-2021, 08:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No, you guys are called doomers without any solutions to anything at all.

Tell me me what you would do different than bringing in Pollack, Reiff, Carman, D'ante Smith, Trey Hill and retaining Spain?

I honestly want to know?

Solutions? They can’t do anything now.

Just have to pray that Burrow survives again, because injuries WILL happen

(06-19-2021, 08:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No, you guys are called doomers without any solutions to anything at all.

Tell me me what you would do different than bringing in Pollack, Reiff, Carman, D'ante Smith, Trey Hill and retaining Spain?

I honestly want to know?


Everything hinges on this every frickin' year man! Where you been? If we are hit by injuries we need to fall back on depth 
and coaching. Pretty frickin' simple. You don't like Reiff, Carman and all the guys they brought in or Pollack or Jonah...

Us homers get it. It is a wonderful world when you get it and aren't negative about anything without ANY solutions.

What would you do different besides of course just drafting Sewell over Chase?

I've actually been supportive of the Carman pick, and think he'll be a good guard.

That said, here is what I would have done different.

1) Fire Lou. Get a DC in here that has some HC experience to help revamp the defense and maybe help Taylor get it figured out. If he can't figure it out, then you have a guy to get your through the season.

2) If Reiff is the answer at RT, then commit to it and give him more then a 1 year stop gap deal. Commit to him and have some continuity on the line for a few seasons. If he isn't the answer long term, don't screw around till round 4 on a long shot from a small school.

3) The unused cap space is killing me. If the move all along was that you had to get the WR in round 1, then you should have worked harder to fix the line in FA ala Zeitler over Spain or... get active for a WR in FA or another DE. I like Ossai, and I think Carman will be a good guard, but if you address one of those spots in FA it opens up another pick that could have been used to improve elsewhere. I still have zero faith that Jonah sees 17 games, I have zero faith XSF stays healthy, and I like Spain but he can be upgraded upon. There is holes that could have been fixed in FA or via an early round pick. Golladay would have been a great get and then the team can trade down and take Vera-Tucker or stay and take Sewell. 

So, in short. My changes. Sign Golladay, we have the cap space and shouldn't have missed. Fire Lou and get new blood coaching the D not just the line. 1st pick then can be for the line or, trade down and get all kinds of talent in return. Hell the Lions wanted to move up and take Sewell, and Miami was after a reunion for Tua, the Bengals could have moved down and still took Chase and had an additional pick in the draft from Det.

(06-20-2021, 02:29 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I've actually been supportive of the Carman pick, and think he'll be a good guard.

That said, here is what I would have done different.

1) Fire Lou. Get a DC in here that has some HC experience to help revamp the defense and maybe help Taylor get it figured out. If he can't figure it out, then you have a guy to get your through the season.

2) If Reiff is the answer at RT, then commit to it and give him more then a 1 year stop gap deal. Commit to him and have some continuity on the line for a few seasons. If he isn't the answer long term, don't screw around till round 4 on a long shot from a small school.

3) The unused cap space is killing me. If the move all along was that you had to get the WR in round 1, then you should have worked harder to fix the line in FA ala Zeitler over Spain or... get active for a WR in FA or another DE. I like Ossai, and I think Carman will be a good guard, but if you address one of those spots in FA it opens up another pick that could have been used to improve elsewhere. I still have zero faith that Jonah sees 17 games, I have zero faith XSF stays healthy, and I like Spain but he can be upgraded upon. There is holes that could have been fixed in FA or via an early round pick. Golladay would have been a great get and then the team can trade down and take Vera-Tucker or stay and take Sewell. 

So, in short. My changes. Sign Golladay, we have the cap space and shouldn't have missed. Fire Lou and get new blood coaching the D not just the line. 1st pick then can be for the line or, trade down and get all kinds of talent in return. Hell the Lions wanted to move up and take Sewell, and Miami was after a reunion for Tua, the Bengals could have moved down and still took Chase and had an additional pick in the draft from Det.

2.) I think the reason why there are so many 1 year deals is because of the salary cap.. players don't want to sign longer deals, then find out the salary cap blows up the following year... next year will be different.

3.) lets wait until after the cuts to ***** about the unused salary cap.. if they dont use it to grab some more players, then you have a legit gripe..

(06-19-2021, 11:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Reiff played some LG in college at Iowa.  He is a better run blocker than pass blocker, too, at this point in his career and fits well as a guard.  Plus, he said publicly that he would play anywhere on the line that he was needed.

Instead of asking yourself if you want Reiff or XSF at Guard (which really shouldn't even be a debate), ask yourself how you feel with Fred Johnson being the first OT off the bench and no one with any NFL experience behind him.  It should be noted that both Jonah and Reiff have missed significant time in the last two years.  Reiff could slide back outside if one of the OTs went down and you could have Spain at LG.  Then Fred Johnson is the 2nd OT off the bench.  You wouldn't have to mess with Carman's development as a guard unless you lost 3 OTs.  

It isn't about wanting Reiff at Guard, it is about wanting better depth of talent at OT. 

Spain has played a little tackle for us as well,  did ok, and I would probably put him out there before Johnson.

(06-20-2021, 10:13 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Solutions? They can’t do anything now.

Just have to pray that Burrow survives again, because injuries WILL happen

Just like they did when Carson Palmer had one of the best Offensive Lines in football...

Tell me your plan or shut up.

Sick of it man, I like what we have done, we will see if it is enough.

(06-20-2021, 02:29 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I've actually been supportive of the Carman pick, and think he'll be a good guard.

That said, here is what I would have done different.

1) Fire Lou. Get a DC in here that has some HC experience to help revamp the defense and maybe help Taylor get it figured out. If he can't figure it out, then you have a guy to get your through the season.

2) If Reiff is the answer at RT, then commit to it and give him more then a 1 year stop gap deal. Commit to him and have some continuity on the line for a few seasons. If he isn't the answer long term, don't screw around till round 4 on a long shot from a small school.

3) The unused cap space is killing me. If the move all along was that you had to get the WR in round 1, then you should have worked harder to fix the line in FA ala Zeitler over Spain or... get active for a WR in FA or another DE. I like Ossai, and I think Carman will be a good guard, but if you address one of those spots in FA it opens up another pick that could have been used to improve elsewhere. I still have zero faith that Jonah sees 17 games, I have zero faith XSF stays healthy, and I like Spain but he can be upgraded upon. There is holes that could have been fixed in FA or via an early round pick. Golladay would have been a great get and then the team can trade down and take Vera-Tucker or stay and take Sewell. 

So, in short. My changes. Sign Golladay, we have the cap space and shouldn't have missed. Fire Lou and get new blood coaching the D not just the line. 1st pick then can be for the line or, trade down and get all kinds of talent in return. Hell the Lions wanted to move up and take Sewell, and Miami was after a reunion for Tua, the Bengals could have moved down and still took Chase and had an additional pick in the draft from Det.

Why not just get a HC who already knows and deserves to be a HC? Just throwing that out there.

 

(06-17-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't believe that is true.  They said on Locked on Bengals that his pass blocking grade was 70?  He was also the 5th ranked RT in the league, according to PFF?  

Bottom line, he is a hell of a lot better than anything else we have, and very similar to Reiff. 

If the Bengals offered him $15 million, they could save at least $3 million cutting XSF and then having Reiff at LG.

I would really like the line of:   Williams-Reiff-Hopkins/Price-Carman-Moses, and it would have the flexibility to move Reiff back outside should one of the other OTs get injured.  Right now, I don't like the idea of Fred Johnson as our backup tackle and really, after him, do you want them to force Carman outside?  They need another OT.  

I am assuming you meant 5 mil which they could probably get him for --maybe a bit more but your point is bang on -- add Moses and cut XSF -- 3 mill cap hit tops and the line is much better 

Sheldon Richardson just signed for 3.6 mil -- the salaries are dropping fast for the guys not signed as there is not a lot of money out there

If Bengals are waiting for someone to get cut --that is fine but they absolutely need at least one more NFL calibre, experience player. They are not going to get a star or maybe even an above average starter but a solid vet would be an upgrade over the entire second string and likely even top five on the team 

(06-19-2021, 11:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Reiff played some LG in college at Iowa.  He is a better run blocker than pass blocker, too, at this point in his career and fits well as a guard.  Plus, he said publicly that he would play anywhere on the line that he was needed.

Instead of asking yourself if you want Reiff or XSF at Guard (which really shouldn't even be a debate), ask yourself how you feel with Fred Johnson being the first OT off the bench and no one with any NFL experience behind him.  It should be noted that both Jonah and Reiff have missed significant time in the last two years.  Reiff could slide back outside if one of the OTs went down and you could have Spain at LG.  Then Fred Johnson is the 2nd OT off the bench.  You wouldn't have to mess with Carman's development as a guard unless you lost 3 OTs.  

It isn't about wanting Reiff at Guard, it is about wanting better depth of talent at OT. 

agreed --why not have 3 good OT and allow some competition. If Reif and Jonah beat out Moses then Moses can compete with Spain for LG. Or if Moses performs better than Spain and Reif is better fit at LG then Moses starts at RT. If Moses and Reif are best then Jonah competes at LG with Spain. One injury does not hurt team as first guy off the bench is decent. Bengals are thin to start with --one injury means we are using the same guys that stuggled last year --see Johnson, Fred. Salaries are dropping and players wanna play --so pick up a vet and create competition 

(06-21-2021, 09:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just like they did when Carson Palmer had one of the best Offensive Lines in football...

Carson Palmer had one of the best lines in football for most of his career in Cincy. 2005 playoffs was a freak accident. 2006 line was a top 10 unit.

This current line? Nowhere near as good.

Terrible o-line = greater chance of the qb getting hurt.

This is a fact

These are all facts

(06-21-2021, 10:37 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Carson Palmer had one of the best lines in football for most of his career in Cincy. 2005 playoffs was a freak accident. 2006 line was a top 10 unit.

This current line? Nowhere near as good.

Terrible o-line = greater chance of the qb getting hurt.

This is a fact

These are all facts

I think his point is that Carsone and Burrow both got hurt the SAME way, with two completely-different calibres of lines.

I love what ZT has done with this team since taking over.
Lets face it the last 3 years of Marvin Lewis had a losing culture. Guys like Pac Man Jones, Burfict and Dre Kirkpatrick were hard to root for.
I like the positive vibe emanating from this team. ZT has brought in a winning culture that started with drafting multiple team captains 2 years ago and this year drafting high motor guys with good character.
I look like a lot of you guys and wonder if we should be going after Morgan Moses, Trai Turner. or other free agents. I would have gave the world for Thuney. However, I have to believe that the Bengals and Pollack know more about what their needs are than any one of us. For all we know they contacted Moses and were told he has no interest in playing G. Maybe they are very happy with what they have in the locker room right now minus Adenji. Why bring in a veteran at a higher price FA if he is just going to sit. I am giving our coaching staff the benefit of knowing more about football than the people on this board. I believe that because they were hired to do this job professionally. Hopefully they prove me right.
If they do have another poor Off line performance this year despite knowing how important improving the OL was than I think the whole staff needs to be let go. Joe Burrow's health is our most valuable asset.

(06-21-2021, 11:00 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I love what ZT has done with this team since taking over.

Do ya?