If you are the Bengals organisation, would you rather structure the team as a high-powered offense/average defense, stingy-Defense/average offense, balanced approach or opportunistic -- best player available mentality (whether that be in the draft or free agency) which would as a result have potential superstars with an moderate supporting cast.

Which would you prefer? And if your preference is one and the Bengals are another, why do you feel the way you do? And why should the Bengals change in the direction?

(07-06-2021, 10:49 AM)EatonFan Wrote: If you are the Bengals organisation, would you rather structure the team as a high-powered offense/average defense, stingy-Defense/average offense, balanced approach or opportunistic -- best player available mentality (whether that be in the draft or free agency) which would as a result have potential superstars with an moderate supporting cast.

Which would you prefer?  And if your preference is one and the Bengals are another, why do you feel the way you do?  And why should the Bengals change in the direction?

I think each approach has garnered a winning SB team.  KC is a high powered offense for instance.  Baltimore was a stingy D.  The Patriots were more a balanced approach (with maybe a tendency toward the offense).

The Bengals are closest to high powered offense based on the options you provided, so I’d go all in on that. If I was starting a team I’d go for stingy defense.

(07-06-2021, 10:57 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: The Bengals are closest to high powered offense based on the options you provided, so I’d go all in on that. If I was starting a team I’d go for stingy defense.

I believe that structure is the most successful -- Stingy D.  But for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to last long.  The Steelers of the 70s being the possible exception.  The '86 Bears.  '00 Ravens.

EDIT: Although just looking at those standout years, maybe that's a misconception. Tampa Bay last year had a very balanced roster. Ranked 3rd on offense scoring, 6th on D.

Great question and poll.

I went with balance approach even though I feel our offense is ahead of the defense, more so if the addition of Reiff shores up the OL. However, we need a defense that allows our offense to get more snaps. A defense poor against the run hampers offensive snaps. So, I would like our defense to be extremely stingy against the run, good against the pass and then take my chances our offense can win the games.

(07-06-2021, 11:34 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I believe that structure is the most successful -- Stingy D.  But for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to last long.  The Steelers of the 70s being the possible exception.  The '86 Bears.  '00 Ravens.

EDIT:  Although just looking at those standout years, maybe that's a misconception.  Tampa Bay last year had a very balanced roster.  Ranked 3rd on offense scoring, 6th on D.

The problem with trying to focus on an elite defense is that you have to build it to shut down both the run and the pass.  You can build a high powered offense without a great run game, so it's easier to build and maintain on that side of the ball.  From a roster composition standpoint, a high powered offense helps you by making opposing offenses more one dimensional and helping take their run game out of the equation, allowing you to focus more on pass rushers and the secondary and not worry so much about run stuffers.  When building a team around an elite defense, you have to be more balanced on offense because you typically want a strong run game to play ball control and allow the D to rest, but you still have to be able to throw the ball in today's game to be successful.

Logically, most would say "balanced", but I chose high-powered offense because I feel the league is slanted that way. A lot of people will say "Look at Tampa!" and that is a valid point, but they already had a stellar defense. All they needed was a savvy QB and a couple weapons on offense and it clicked. They ended up getting the GOAT and a resurgent Gronk. Perfect storm for them.

If you have a really high-powered offense, you can turn your defense loose with relentless pass rush. I think of those Manning-led teams and the best Patriot teams. Their defenses rarely had to try and stop the run because their first couple scripted drives would put teams behind.

I would do what the Bengals have basically done (Did I really just say that?): Build a high-powered, young offense and then try to get a couple playmakers on defense to create some turnovers and big plays. What I think they are lacking is an elite pass rusher (Could it be Ossai?) and a leader in the middle of the LB corps. Maybe that can be Wilson.

If this offense stays healthy, and guys like Ossai, Hendrickson, and Wilson really shine, this team could be dangerous.

I think low-tier teams often try to get the superstar player and think that will be 'the thing' that gets them over the hump. They sign big time FAs, but still lose. Having superstars is fine, but if they suck up the cap money to such an extent that their surrounding cast is below average, that gets you nowhere. You still lose. You can scheme against a superstar except maybe for QB.

Have an elite corner? Don't throw that way. Have an elite pass rusher? Double teams and running at them or away from them, etc.

With all the rules making it tougher to play defense and it becoming a passing league, I think you make your offense explosive and able to move the chains and sustain drives. The other team can't score if they're on the sidelines.

On defense, you obviously have to at least be able to slow down the run, but I think it's most important to get people that can rush the passer because anyone can play DB if the QB doesn't have time to let the receivers get into their routes.

With our team right now and a QB like Burrow, receiver like Chase, and back like Mixon, I think, first and foremost, you build a line to protect Burrow, open holes for Mixon, and say "try and stop us."

Peyton Manning always seemed like he had shitty-to-average defenses but always managed to have winning seasons, and that was back when defenses could still hit people..

First and foremost, build an offensive line and then get pass rushers. That's the next direction we need to go to be competitors.

Last 15 SB winners (which structure were they?)

2021 Tampa Bay
2020 Kansas City
2019 New England
2018 Philadelphia
2017 New England
2016 Denver
2015 New England
2014 Seattle
2013 Baltimore
2012 New York Giants
2011 Green Bay
2010 New Orleans
2009 Pittsburgh
2008 New York Giants
2007 Indianapolis

I went with high powered offense for a few different reasons.

1.) I saw that you paired the "high-powered" side of the ball with "average" on the other side of the ball.  Had the other side of the ball been below average I probably would have went with "balanced".  But since it's not, I chose what I did. 

2.) This offense is obviously currently structured to be high-powered.  QB, RB, WR1, WR2, WR3 all leads to this.  So this influeced my opinon as as well.  (I know it's my choice but I'm going with the approach currently being taken.)

3.) If you look at the way this league has been trending since the days of Dungy's Bucaneers, Billick's Ravens, and Cowher's Steelers it's definitely more based on scoring points than preventing them.  Obviously there is a healthy combination of both but I still think it skews to the offense.  If you have a great offense it can allow you to really do a lot of different things on defense.  From the looks you give, to gambles you take, to the way Time of Possession can affect an opponent, I think the offense can lift up a respectable defense much more than the reverse.

4.)  I'd be lying if I didn't say an offensive juggernaut is more entertaining to me.  Sure, I love a great defensive performance as much as the next guy.  But'll take the high scoring and hard yardage wins over the 16-10 type of games more often than not.  Just from an entertainment perspective, I'd love to see Burrow putting somewhere around 5,000 yards and 40+ TD's.  That's just fun to watch.

I went with "Best Player Available" approach. In recent drafts, the Bengals have had players conducive to building a high powered offense be the best players available to them at the top end of the draft. As they begin to win games, their draft slot will change, and perhaps the pendulum will swing toward defenders being the best players available for a few years.

(07-06-2021, 10:49 AM)EatonFan Wrote: If you are the Bengals organisation, would you rather structure the team as a high-powered offense/average defense, stingy-Defense/average offense, balanced approach or opportunistic -- best player available mentality (whether that be in the draft or free agency) which would as a result have potential superstars with an moderate supporting cast.

Which would you prefer?  And if your preference is one and the Bengals are another, why do you feel the way you do?  And why should the Bengals change in the direction?

Personally I don't see why we have to decide between high-powered offense and stingy defense. I want both! And I want an offense that can run the f'n ball!

 

(07-06-2021, 03:06 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Personally I don't see why we have to decide between high-powered offense and stingy defense. I want both! And I want an offense that can run the f'n ball!

 

While that would be awesome, if you look at the history of SB winning teams they usually are one of these structures.  Each one (except maybe the last one) has been successful at certain times.  Just looking through the list and recalling each team, I'd say the balanced all-around approach is the most consistent. 

High powered offense no question.
If your offense can score either big play or 16 play drives
You can stress out the other offense into playing catchup
And when your offense can light up a scoreboard
You can control tempo and your defense can
Play more loose and free as they can read what
The other offense is trying to do

(07-06-2021, 04:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: High powered offense no question.
If your offense can score either big play or 16 play drives
You can stress out the other offense into playing catchup
And when your offense can light up a scoreboard
You can control tempo and your defense can
Play more loose and free as they can read what
The other offense is trying to do

I think in this age that most teams gear toward the high powered offense.  It's like the UNLV (in the 80's) way of playing basketball, fast break all the time.  They literally were out to outscore you -- push push push.  Defense be damned.  I think the 'Greatest Show on Turf" (Rams) kind of started this concept.

I went high power offense. I think that in today's NFL that is the key to winning and then finding a young mix on defense anf letting them come into their own at the right time.

Also, in your examples, the Giants also had an excellent defense... at the right moments. I think that's what's big in any of this. Guys who rise to the moment on all 3 sides of the ball.

I think that it is harder to build a good offense than a good defense in some ways. Offense is like an orchestra or a marching band, requiring precise timing and precision. Defense is more "hit it with a hammer and hope it breaks." If your offense is bad, there is no easy solution because you need 5 OL who are at least OK and you need perfect timing between your QB and skill positions. If your defense is bad, adding a single elite level pass rusher can bring the entire unit up to being average-ish. I see the D as more of a young man's game where second and third contracts tend not to give you as much bang for your buck compared to offensive positions where players can keep playing for longer. There are analytics people who say that a modern team is 4 parts offense, 3 parts defense, and 1 part special teams. That seems like a fair way of looking at it. Teams that are built like the Ravens who have A+ secondaries can be really good, but are less likely to win the biscuit than the teams with elite offenses jmho. 

..


2021 Tampa Bay 7 6
2020 Kansas City 6 17
2019 New England 5 21
2018 Philadelphia 7 4
2017 New England 4 8
2016 Denver 16 1
2015 New England 11 13
2014 Seattle 17 1
2013 Baltimore 16 17
2012 New York Giants 8 27
2011 Green Bay 9 5
2010 New Orleans 1 25
2009 Pittsburgh 22 1
2008 New York Giants 16 7
2007 Indianapolis 3 21


The numbers next to each team's name represent their offensive and defensive rank for those given seasons. As you can see, it's pretty mixed as to whichever approach works best. The only deductions that I can surmise is that being good on both sides of the ball is good, and having the top defense wins the championship 3X as many times as the top offense.

(07-06-2021, 10:57 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: The Bengals are closest to high powered offense based on the options you provided, so I’d go all in on that. If I was starting a team I’d go for stingy defense.

29th in Points For and 29th in Yards begs to differ.
Taylor's playcalling can easily hold this offense back.
The have a good QB, RB, WRs, and OTs.
Their C is really good in pass protection.
Their Gs and TEs are weak points.


This team has the pieces to have a Top 10 offense and Top 15-20 defense.
If they don't get there with either one, it's on the playcalling/scheme.