(07-23-2021, 11:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2019 Dunlap had 9 sacks and Geno went to the pro Bowl.  Our Defense also had Hubbard, Bates, Lawson, and Jackson.

Until our offense lost Green, Boling, Glenn, and our first pick in the draft they were not bereft of talent with Mixon, Boyd and Dalton.

Or maybe no one here gave Marvin enough credit for winning six games with no talent on the roster.

Buddy, I not only watch every game, but I was there to witness it live as well.

- Dunlap very good
- Atkins Very good (but getting old)
- Boyd is very good.
- Sam Hubbard very good 
 - Mixon is very good.
- Bates very good.

- Lawson I am not sold on... He's a specialist role player, IMO. Never really impacted games reliably.
- Jackson is good. I'm indifferent towards him. Adam Jones was a far superior player, I

- Green didn't play in 2019
- Boling didn't play in 2019
- Glenn was a headcase in 2019 NOT GOOD
- First round pick didn't play in 2019

- Dalton is a journeyman backup. No need to mention him here. He doesn't belong on the same page w these guys. He was clearly a product of a great team around him for most of his "Good Andy" years. His is a Kitna clone.

- ROOKIE HEAD COACH + 2019 Bengals fielding 6 good to very good players (3 of which were very young) out of 22 starters.... 1 of which was NOT the QB = recipe for NFL disaster. And that's what the Bengals delivered that season.

2nd season: Rebuild + COVID

3rd season: No excuses to not be at least 8-9 or better.

(07-23-2021, 12:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Dalton is a journeyman backup.

He is the starting QB for the Bears.

(07-23-2021, 12:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Buddy, I not only watch every game, but I was there to witness it live as well.



- Lawson I am not sold on... He's a specialist role player, IMO. Never really impacted games reliably.

Thanks for proving that it doesn't matter if you watch every game when you do not understand what they are seeing.

(07-22-2021, 10:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think it's a "light" as much as it's finding out if his plan can be successful. In hindsight, it was pretty much a pipe dream that this team could be competitive with the players that were holdovers from the Marv era. There's been a big time turnover of the roster and on paper it looks like there's a type of player and scheme they want, so this year should show whether it's a solid plan or not. 

Yeah, this year is the tell all with Taylor for sure.

If he doesn't get this team winning this year at least enough games to make the Playoffs I say bye bye to the guy.

(07-22-2021, 10:28 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Injuries are still out there as an unknown and i'm still not real positive on Anarumo's play calling, but it is possible to an extent to overcome that if you have enough talent out there. 

Lou is the guy I wanted gone after last season for sure. We will see if we can stay healthy.

I have said it before but when the trenches are as bad as they have been the last few years that inhibits coaching big time.

Hard to know, we should know this year. But even last year when we were relatively healthy on D they sucked under Lou.

Biggest reason I wanted him gone. Then came that last game against the Ratbirds where they just ran all over us.

That sucks, hate to be ran on especially to THAT extent.

(07-22-2021, 10:48 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I have to agree.I really like the direction this team is going.I like what they have done in the draft,and especially free agency.I like the way that Zac Taylor is not afraid to be aggressive on offense.When Burrow got injured last year,I think they were something like 13of14 on fourth down attempts,and led the league.

True, forgot about how good we were on 4th down with Burrow.

Just wish we were better on 2nd and 3rd downs, hopefully this really improves. Better OL play is key.

Pollack, Reiff, Spain, Carman should help big time.

(07-23-2021, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He is the starting QB for the Bears.

For now. They needed a vet. AD signed a 1 year contract... and they used a 1st round pick with an eye to replace him before he even took a practice snap. Before that he was on a 1 year deal with the Cowboys to be a backup.

(07-23-2021, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Thanks for proving that it doesn't matter if you watch every game when you do not understand what they are seeing.

Is that what you tell yourself to justify the 2 games a season you're able to actually watch?

In 4 seasons, Carl Lawson....

- Started 14 games out of a possible 64
- Completely missed 13 games out of 64 due to injury
- Avg 5 sacks a year (total 20)
- Avg 12.25 solo tackles a year
- Avg 20 combine solo/assisted tackles/year
- Forced 2 fumbles in 4 years

Now, he did have a bunch of QB hits... but that amounted to very little impact.... which was my point.

So, tell me more about how the above information gives you a different opinion of Lawson than mine. I'll wait.....

(07-22-2021, 01:57 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Really makes you wonder what the issue is with the team. 

If it was just Taylor being completely clueless I would think the players wouldn't like him or want to play for Cincinnati. Yet, guys seem excited they had guys sign here in FA that had other options, it really doesn't add up at all.

My opinion is that Zac is a young coach at only 38 years old and has charisma. He is well spoken and probably can relate and communicate well with his players who aren’t much younger than him. He’s not an old school hard ass coach that some players can’t relate too. Daniels mentions he knows how to take care of his players. I think players definitely like Zac cause he’s a nice guy and relatable. I never hear players say offensive genus / great play caller , great football mind who came from the Mcvay coaching tree and is bringing in the Rams system. I think free agents come here because of Burrow not Zac Taylor. Mike Hilton mentioned coming here because of Burrow. Also money talks we made Reader the highest paid NT and gave Hendricks and Wayne’s big contracts something we normally didn’t do in the past. Burrow likes him but he’s never had another NFL coach and probably thinks he can win with anyone because that’s his mindset. Taylor has never even been an offensive coordinator before and I just haven’t seen much creativity or reason to believe he knows what he’s doing.

(07-23-2021, 03:09 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Is that what you tell yourself to justify the 2 games a season you're able to actually watch?

I've watched more than 2 games from last season.

That is a lie Mantooth uses when he does not have any real argument against what I am saying.

Seems you are doing the same now.

(07-23-2021, 10:18 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Then, you both missed the point... The point had nothing to do with what players did after leaving the Bengals. The point was: That entire "Dalton/Green" era group, save for 3 guys, were done being impact players FOR ANY TEAM after 2018.

So, what was ZT realistically supposed to do with that group? That group was clearly FINISHED based on their post 2018 careers... with any team. Look at the major contributors from 2010-2018... where were they in 2019? NOT being major contributors.

And you're still wrong because several were impact players in 2019-2020 and they've already been listed.  And has also been listed, some of them were never major contributors.  Your overall attempted points are fine, but you're a poor list maker.  Stop using them to prove you're point and just make them, because you're lists aren't helping you.

(07-23-2021, 03:31 PM)lone bengal Wrote: My opinion is that Zac is a young coach at only 38 years old and has charisma. He is well spoken and probably can relate and communicate well with his players who aren’t much younger than him. He’s not an old school hard ass coach that some players can’t relate too. Daniels mentions he knows how to take care of his players. I think players definitely like Zac cause he’s a nice guy and relatable. I never hear players say offensive genus / great play caller , great football mind who came from the Mcvay coaching tree and is bringing in the Rams system.  I think free agents come here because of Burrow not Zac Taylor. Mike Hilton mentioned coming here because of Burrow. Also money talks we made Reader the highest paid NT and gave Hendricks and Wayne’s big contracts something we normally didn’t do in the past. Burrow likes him but he’s never had another NFL coach and probably thinks he can win with anyone because that’s his mindset. Taylor has never even been an offensive coordinator before and I just haven’t seen much creativity or reason to believe he knows what he’s doing.

I personally think Burrow had a relationship with Taylor prior to even coming to Cincinnati.  I'm sure the Taylor and Burrow families are tight due to their connections at Nebraska.  So you'll never find a day that Burrow says anything bad about Zac Taylor.  That'd be like you calling out a family friend for being incompetent.  

Taylor's offense hasnt impressed me to date.  He was supposedly an up and coming offensive genius who couldn't even succeed at the University of Cincinnati 5 years ago in 2016.  

(07-23-2021, 05:15 PM)Stewy Wrote: And you're still wrong because several were impact players in 2019-2020 and they've already been listed.  And has also been listed, some of them were never major contributors.  Your overall attempted points are fine, but you're a poor list maker.  Stop using them to prove you're point and just make them, because you're lists aren't helping you.

They were listed to me, the list was weak, so I then debunked it.

I'll simplify for you:

6 guys (none of which were QBs) were listed... 2 of which were 2nd year defensive players in 2019 does not = a 2019 roster with talent for ZT to work with.... which was my whole point.

I'm going to bluntly ask so that we are both on the same page here....

Are you saying I'm wrong and that you are of the opinion that the 2019 Bengals roster, at the start of the 2019 NFL season (Week 1), had a lot of talent for Taylor to work with?

ZT had some talent, but not nearly enough to win more than a game or two and certainly not enough healthy talent to win enough for any shot at playoffs or godforbid the superbowl..
And had a real turd coaching the offensive line with very little legit talent.. My real knock on ZT was his choices for assistant coaches right out of the gate.. 
Has he learned anything?  We're about to find out.. 

(07-22-2021, 02:19 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I think the deal is that the past 2 seasons were a complete rebuild because thw roster sucked. The window slammed shut from Marvin's 2nd go at it and the sinking into the abyss from 2016 on is clear proof of that.

Where are the stars from 2011-2018 at today? Where's Burfict? Jones? Hall? Kirkpatrick? Dalton? Green? Hill? Atkins? Eifert & Gresham? Reggie Nelson? Sanu & Jones? None panned out long term at the teams they left Cincy for.

Where are the studs that had the Bengals as a playoff contender every season? With the exception of Dunlap, Bernard, & Whitworth... are they even playing.... and, if they are... are they impact players? No. No longer. It was over for that group.

Now, take the above facts and pair them with several years ina. row with less than great drafts (bad, really) and cheap FA band-aids through the 2018 season. Where do you think that puts a 1st year HC in season 1? Now throw in COVID for season 2?

I believe the Food Network has the above listed as a recipe for DISASTER.

This is why I don't just completely bash ZT and am ok watching this develop. My mind is open on ZT... especially with the players seemingly all in under his leadership.

The Bengals weren't close when Taylor took over. They had one of the worst rosters in the league heading into the 2019 season. Now, though? In 2021 ZT has the tools... HIS TOOLS... to make major gains over his previous seasons. If not, he needs to go. 8+ wins should be a minimum expectation for this staff and this roster.

Also drafts have been poor until last year

(07-24-2021, 10:03 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Also drafts have been poor until last year

Absolutely! I touched on that a little bit there, but YES, the drafts were not just "Not good", they were really bad. Especially with first round picks. The Bengals did not get what they were forecasting with so many first rounders... in a row!

(07-23-2021, 05:32 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I personally think Burrow had a relationship with Taylor prior to even coming to Cincinnati.  I'm sure the Taylor and Burrow families are tight due to their connections at Nebraska.  So you'll never find a day that Burrow says anything bad about Zac Taylor.  That'd be like you calling out a family friend for being incompetent.  

Taylor's offense hasnt impressed me to date.  He was supposedly an up and coming offensive genius who couldn't even succeed at the University of Cincinnati 5 years ago in 2016.  

Well fortunately for us, someone that knows more about football thinks differently..