I wonder IF the Bengals extend Bates. I think the FO under values the safety position. But if they do extend Bates, what would his contract look like?

(07-25-2021, 08:28 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I wonder IF the Bengals extend Bates. I think the FO under values the safety position. But if they do extend Bates, what would his contract look like?

Somewhere around 4 years 60 million, similar to the Justin Simmons deal just signed in Denver.

People calling Hubbard a tier 2 player.... didn't he lead the league stopping the run? Doesn't sound much like tier 2 to me.

(07-25-2021, 06:59 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol Hubbard tipped the pass that Logan picked, if it's the Bmore INT.

Ah wow, I didn’t even notice that on the replay. Now I’m the dummy! I just thought that was a typical Lamar Jackson duck! Lol

You have to remember last year no one up front got pressure. The DL got wrecked by injuries almost right out of the gate plus overall poor defense. Hubbard is a good DE who even in last year's fiasco was strong against the run.

Great news. I think we are set at DE for the next few years which is really nice to say about a premier position. Hendrickson Hubbard Ossai Sample Kareem Hubert. I’m a fan of this group. Two great players and leaders at the top of a young high upside position group. It should be fun watching these guys work and grow together

(07-25-2021, 08:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People calling Hubbard a tier 2 player.... didn't he lead the league stopping the run? Doesn't sound much like tier 2 to me.

He is good at stopping the run. But this league is all
About throwing the ball and getting to the QB.
DEs that can get to.the QB and finish or alter the 
Comfort level of a QB are just valved more than 
DEs that can defend against the run. 
Hubbard is a 2nd tier DE. 
The numbers support that

I'm a fan. He's young, and last year was really the outlier for him.

He's produced better in the past, and I expect him to pick back up.

I agree with Leonard Leap though...with all the money we're putting on the defensive side, no excuses for Lou.

If we can get more pressure up the middle this year with Reader and co., our edge rushers should have a good year. Hopefully we can start playing with a lead as well.

Not a bad deal for either party imo. Guys like Hubbard are like the glue that hold good rosters together. 

(07-25-2021, 10:45 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Not a bad deal for either party imo. Guys like Hubbard are like the glue that hold good rosters together. 

Writing was on the wall with his engagement off the field. He’s recruiting free agents, going to dinners like Burrow. He’s doing his best to be a leader and we need more of those on the defense.

I officially approve of this deal.

(07-25-2021, 08:28 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I wonder IF the Bengals extend Bates.  I think the FO under values the safety position.  But if they do extend Bates, what would his contract look like?

I like Bates a lot and he had a great 2020, but I really hope they hold off on the extension for him until 2022.

2019 Bates (100.1 QB Rating Allowed, 14.5% missed tackle rate) and 2020 Bates were such vastly different players that I am not sure which one you're going to get (or somewhere in between). 2021 should give us all a really good idea of what Bates will be as a player moving forward. 

I just don't know if you can confidently give him an elite contract right this second. I would rather wait and give Bates 4yr/$68m in 2022 than 4yr/$60m in 2021 if it means I am certain that 2020 Bates is the real Bates, because if it turns out he's more 2019, that could be a disaster of a contract.

(07-26-2021, 12:34 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I like Bates a lot and he had a great 2020, but I really hope they hold off on the extension for him until 2022.

2019 Bates (100.1 QB Rating Allowed, 14.5% missed tackle rate) and 2020 Bates were such vastly different players that I am not sure which one you're going to get (or somewhere in between). 2021 should give us all a really good idea of what Bates will be as a player moving forward. 

I just don't know if you can confidently give him an elite contract right this second. I would rather wait and give Bates 4yr/$68m in 2022 than 4yr/$60m in 2021 if it means I am certain that 2020 Bates is the real Bates, because if it turns out he's more 2019, that could be a disaster of a contract.

Three years of 1000+ snaps though and two of the three are very good to elite. Looks more like 2019 was an anomaly. 

(07-26-2021, 12:34 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I like Bates a lot and he had a great 2020, but I really hope they hold off on the extension for him until 2022.

2019 Bates (100.1 QB Rating Allowed, 14.5% missed tackle rate) and 2020 Bates were such vastly different players that I am not sure which one you're going to get (or somewhere in between). 2021 should give us all a really good idea of what Bates will be as a player moving forward. 

I just don't know if you can confidently give him an elite contract right this second. I would rather wait and give Bates 4yr/$68m in 2022 than 4yr/$60m in 2021 if it means I am certain that 2020 Bates is the real Bates, because if it turns out he's more 2019, that could be a disaster of a contract.

Wait so this thread turned into a Jessie Bates is overrated and shouldn't be re-signed thread.  Lol C'mon man.
Yes let's let the best safety in the NFL walk.  After all he didn't become the best until his 3rd year.  

(07-25-2021, 09:54 PM)impactplaya Wrote: He is good at stopping the run. But this league is all
About throwing the ball and getting to the QB.
DEs that can get to.the QB and finish or alter the 
Comfort level of a QB are just valved more than 
DEs that can defend against the run. 
Hubbard is a 2nd tier DE. 
The numbers support that

Hubbard can finish.  His first two seasons he had 14.5 sacks in fewer than 1400 snaps played.  That is a very good sack percentage.  Especially when you consider that Hubbard was not just playing on passing downs like some pass rush specialists.

Don't know why so many people here want to judge Hubbard just on last season instead of looking at his entire career.

Good signing for the price... probably our most athletic and overall versatile DE... still young and can continue to improve..

(07-25-2021, 09:54 PM)impactplaya Wrote: He is good at stopping the run. But this league is all
About throwing the ball and getting to the QB.
DEs that can get to.the QB and finish or alter the 
Comfort level of a QB are just valved more than 
DEs that can defend against the run. 
Hubbard is a 2nd tier DE. 
The numbers support that

Oh, ok, well I was confused I guess cause I thought I read here you have to run the ball in this league and ZT sucks cause all he wants to do is throw it. So the league is back to being all about throwing and not all about running? 

On a side note, Bates can be franchised while that probably wasn't going to be an option for Hubbard.

The 2021 Saftey franchise tag number was 10.6 million, and the projected 2022 Safety number is 13.5 million; which is very affordable for a player of Bates' caliber.

You can expect Bates to be hear for 2022 on a franchise tag at the very least.

(07-26-2021, 09:08 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Hubbard can finish.  His first two seasons he had 14.5 sacks in fewer than 1400 snaps played.  That is a very good sack percentage.  Especially when you consider that Hubbard was not just playing on passing downs like some pass rush specialists.

Don't know why so many people here want to judge Hubbard just on last season instead of looking at his entire career.

Sam Hubbard did most of his damage rushing from the inside next to Carlos Dunlap but he doesn't have that first step explosiveness to be a consistent threat from the outside. He is excellent with his hands though which makes him an outstanding run defender and solid interior pass rusher. 

The Bengals are putting alot of Joseph Ossai in 2021 to come in and be a pass rush threat in key situations. Ossai is athletically gifted and can be very versatile playing 43 End, 34 Jack, 
 43 Leo, 43 SAM.