(07-28-2021, 12:53 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Neither of those are a percentage that'd I'd say are the magic bullet you claim. Plus do your research. It's not a vaccine. The virus still spreads, just less symptoms. That's what those percentages are 

Right from your citation buddy: METHODS
We used a test-negative case–control design to estimate the [b]effectiveness of vaccination against symptomatic disease caused by the delta variant or the predominant strain

Keyword...symptomatic. They don't stop the spread and like I originally stated, this thing is here to stay. There is nothing you can say or cite that'll say this will be eradicated. No expert is saying that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/amp/

(07-28-2021, 01:23 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/s/quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/amp/

Let's just check back in a year or two and see who's right. 

Here's from the CDC today: CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said recent studies had shown that those vaccinated individuals who do become infected with Covid have just as much viral load as the unvaccinated, making it possible for them to spread the virus to others. Based on that finding, Walensky said the CDC is also recommending that all school children wear masks in the fall.

So looks like I'm right

(07-27-2021, 03:50 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: As stayed, 39% vaccine effectiveness on delta. Case closed. It's over. And it's not really a vaccine. It's mRNA which protects from heavy symptoms but not from catching it.

The 39% figure was from Israel. The 39% refers to the ability of the vaccine to prevent infection. The data from Israel shows a 80+ % effectiveness against hospitalization or death.

Data from he UK, which used the same vaccine brand, shows an 80+% ability of the vaccine to prevent infection. And a similar effectiveness in preventing hospitalization and death.

We're talking about the delta variant of COVID, BTW, in both instances.

But why is the SAME BRAND of vaccine 39% effective in one country and 80% effective in another?

Other than xenophobes who might say that Jews are less healthy than Brits, the answer lies elsewhere. When looking at immunization data, Israel stuck pretty religiously to Pfizer's 3-weeks-between-shots guidelines. The UK, with approximately 7x the population size and problems of its own, waited longer between shots. Sometimes as long as 12 weeks.

It is still too early to tell if the UK approach bears out. And nobody, to my knowledge, is studying the differences in approach.

As to the topic at hand, the NFL is not saying that players must be vaccinated. They are saying that if a player chooses to be unvaccinated, that choice has consequences. 

This is no different than any other of the multiple choices we humans make daily. If you are late for work and speed, you risk getting a ticket. If you arrive late to work, you risk getting docked in your pay. Whatever choice you make, you must live with the consequences of that decision.  Even people wearing red hats should see that logic.

You were doing really well with that post, until you threw in the unneeded last sentence.

(07-27-2021, 09:48 PM)AussieBengal Wrote: The issue is the choice doesn't only effect the person making it, it effects everyone else in society.

All choices have ripple effects.   When you boil it down, this is no different.   The impact of my choices on you or anyone else does not dismiss or over ride my right to make that choice.   If there are consequences to making such a choice - fine - but it is still my right to make that choice.  

I guess a lot of you are gamblers and like high risk bets??

Take it from me, if you get it and it doesn't do much to you then great, but you pass it along to someone you love that it does kill.. you will regret it.

Ask my dad who gave it to my mom (who is no longer alive) how he feels about that?

Just be smart and safe and get the vaccination and keep diligent in protecting yourself and family. You don't want to be one of those saying they wished they had gotten the vaccination sooner.

(07-28-2021, 09:02 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Let's just check back in a year or two and see who's right. 

Here's from the CDC today: CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said recent studies had shown that those vaccinated individuals who do become infected with Covid have just as much viral load as the unvaccinated, making it possible for them to spread the virus to others. Based on that finding, Walensky said the CDC is also recommending that all school children wear masks in the fall.

So looks like I'm right

In a year or two the Covid vaccine will still be a vaccine.

And I wrote we will never achieve herd immunity with a national vaccination rate of 50-60%. I never wrote anything about eradication. You’re the one who suggested it wouldn’t eradicate all coronaviruses. Probably because you don’t know what herd immunity is, either.

It’s difficult to impossible to have a conversation about vaccines with someone who doesn’t even know what one is. But, I’m going to try to explain what the CDC director said. We know some vaccinated people will still get infected because no vaccine is 100% effective. With an efficacy rate of 95% that means 5% of people vaccinated will still get infected despite vaccination and 95% won’t get infected.

So what you wrote previously about mRNA vaccines (which aren’t vaccines according to you) only reducing symptoms and not the spread of infections is false. Those efficacy numbers like 88% mean 88% of those vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine don’t get infected by delta variant. Which means the vaccine stops the spread to 88% of those people who get vaccinated. Or, out of 100 vaccinated people, 88 people won’t get infected and 12 will. So the Pfizer vaccine will stop the spread of the delta variant in 88 people out of 100 according to at least two studies. The reductions in hospitalizations and death is in the 90 something % range. Because even if you’re one of the 12% of vaccinated people with the Pfizer vaccine you will have partial immunity which reduces the severity of the illness.

The same break through infection and partial immunity response happens with childhood vaccinations, too, but I’m sure you’re unaware of this. I’ve seen a case of chickenpox that I couldn’t even recognize as chickenpox clinically because of the partial immunity reducing the characteristic rash to almost nothing. I had to order a lab to confirm my suspicion which is not usually needed to diagnose chicken pox.

So the CDC director is talking about the 5-12% of kids who were vaccinated, but still got infected which we know will happen based upon the efficacy rates. She isn’t talking about the 88-95% who did not get infected because they were vaccinated with a vaccine. So if we have a hypothetical high school of 1,000 students with a 100% vaccination rate, the Pfizer vaccine will “stop the spread” to 880-950 students. Which means 50-120 students could still get infected.

Although I find your lack of knowledge or understanding of even the basics frustrating, I do admire your confidence because you don’t let it prevent you from spreading misinformation that is potentially dangerous to others’ health during the pandemic.

(07-28-2021, 09:58 AM)jwalker3853 Wrote: All choices have ripple effects.   When you boil it down, this is no different.   The impact of my choices on you or anyone else does not dismiss or over ride my right to make that choice.   If there are consequences to making such a choice - fine - but it is still my right to make that choice.  

True, but we have had school vaccine mandates for decades to protect the public health from those individual choices that put the health of others at risk.

(07-28-2021, 10:18 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I guess a lot of you are gamblers and like high risk bets??

Take it from me, if you get it and it doesn't do much to you then great, but you pass it along to someone you love that it does kill.. you will regret it.

Ask my dad who gave it to my mom (who is no longer alive) how he feels about that?

Just be smart and safe and get the vaccination and keep diligent in protecting yourself and family. You don't want to be one of those saying they wished they had gotten the vaccination sooner.

I’m so sorry for your family’s loss.

(07-28-2021, 09:58 AM)jwalker3853 Wrote: All choices have ripple effects.   When you boil it down, this is no different.   The impact of my choices on you or anyone else does not dismiss or over ride my right to make that choice.   If there are consequences to making such a choice - fine - but it is still my right to make that choice.  

Ecactly. Just like your choice to drive while drunk. When your choices effect the safety of other people then they are subject to regulation.

In about a month, the vaccine will likely go to approval instead of an emergency status. At that point companies will likely get more aggressive to keep their employees as well as their customers safer. I wish they would do it now. But CEO's are pretty much on record saying once emergency status is dropped the word 'requirements' will happen because litigation will be in their favor.

Are the Bengals one of the teams with 90%+ vaxx rate? Curious to know, since this is the BENGALS board.

(07-28-2021, 10:42 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Are the Bengals one of the teams with 90%+ vaxx rate? Curious to know, since this is the BENGALS board.

havent seen the team listed on any list concerning Vaxx rates

(07-28-2021, 10:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Ecactly. Just like your choice to drive while drunk. When your choices effect the safety of other people then they are subject to regulation.

in this case though if the vax is worth anything then anyone with it does not have to worry about who doesnt have it.

if your still worried then you simply dont trust the vax as it is.

(07-28-2021, 10:55 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: havent seen the team listed on any list concerning Vaxx rates

I read somewhere that 14 teams were above the 90% threshold. Since it sounded like we cut camp early for players to get it I wasn’t sure if maybe we were one of the 14.

It doesn’t really matter except that we might get some leniency if cases do pop up.

(07-28-2021, 10:42 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Are the Bengals one of the teams with 90%+ vaxx rate? Curious to know, since this is the BENGALS board.

Apparently they are at 90%.  From an article posted yesterday:

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/27/mike-brown-zac-taylor-comment-bengals-high-vaccination-rate/

"The Cincinnati Bengals say they have hit the 90 percent threshold in terms of player vaccinations ahead of training camp, while the entire surrounding staff is fully vaccinated."

And

“Our players have done a great job. We are 90 percent in the process of being fully vaccinated. Really, two weeks from now there’s another 10 that will be considered fully vaccinated. We are in a good spot. We have had great conversations with all these guys and proud of the way they have attacked it and communicated it. They have allowed us to be put in a really good position to be as normal as possible going forward.”

In other COVID football news, Lamar Jackson tested positive again… does this dude wash his hands?

(07-28-2021, 11:10 AM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Apparently they are.  From an article posted yesterday:

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/27/mike-brown-zac-taylor-comment-bengals-high-vaccination-rate/

"The Cincinnati Bengals say they have hit the 90 percent threshold in terms of player vaccinations ahead of training camp, while the entire surrounding staff is fully vaccinated."

Nice! Regardless of pro vaxx or vaxx hesitant, this is good news as it relates to football and potential league led punishments.

(07-28-2021, 11:11 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Nice! Regardless of pro vaxx or vaxx hesitant, this is good news as it relates to football and potential league led punishments.

Right. A vaccinated player who tests positive, only needs a couple of negative tests to get back on the field, whereas unvaccinated players have to do the whole quarantine deal. Seems like we can field a team no matter what now.

(07-28-2021, 10:37 AM)Goalpost Wrote: In about a month, the vaccine will likely go to approval instead of an emergency status.  At that point companies will likely get more aggressive to keep their employees as well as their customers safer.  I wish they would do it now.  But CEO's are pretty much on record saying once emergency status is dropped the word 'requirements' will happen because litigation will be in their favor.

They just showed a news story listing some of the big name businesses who are requiring their employees to be vaccinated to come to work. It's a growing trend.