(07-28-2021, 01:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Can I read your source that claims the Covid vaccines cause mutations?

Well, honestly it would be based on the theory of evolution and there are too many books, articles, videos, etc to list for that. Mutations happen because this living thing is trying to survive long term so it mutates over time. Same way bacteria becomes antibiotic resistant. Its evolving to ensure its own survival. Do you believe in evolution? Some people dont. 

(07-28-2021, 12:21 PM)AussieBengal Wrote: I will say I am in a very bad mood today, so sorry if my replies came across blunt. Our lockdown just got extended for another 4 weeks and I am starting to struggle with it mentally.

It’s times like these when being prior military and soldiering through long deployments away from family, friends, and all the comforts of home really help you cope. Because as bad as these lockdowns seem, at least you’re not deployed. As a former soldier, I know things could always be worse. And I’m thankful that they’re not.

At least I can get a glass of ice cold water when I want. Because there were times I might have cut someone for an ice cube. And I’m only half joking’.

(07-28-2021, 12:32 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I dont think most people will be calling it a vaccine much longer honestly. Its going to be viewed as the covid shot, and people will get it yearly to protect from mutations until we are 100% certain that the mutations are weakening and not getting stronger. 

Which vaccine do we currently have which is no longer a vaccine?

(07-28-2021, 12:59 PM)bengaloo Wrote: That is a good point and the reasons I believe the survival rates is because first off its one of the only things most people agree on including the "experts". Also, I know a lot of people who had covid, including my now 98 year old grandpa, my 74 year old diabetic aunt, my 75 year old mother and may othr friends and family who many are over 65 and none of them died at all. I do know an older fella at my moms church who had some underlying condition was in ICU for a few days but he ended up pulling through. So in my circle there was 100% survival rate with people who are considered higher risk for complications. 

None of my friends or family have been murdered so I guess that means all the murder stats are fake, right?

Google "excess deaths" and you will see the numbers that confirm the death toll from covid.

(07-28-2021, 01:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It’s times like these when being prior military and soldiering through long deployments away from family, friends, and all the comforts of home really help you cope. Because as bad as these lockdowns seem, at least you’re not deployed. As a former soldier, I know things could always be worse. And I’m thankful that they’re not.

At least I can get a glass of ice cold water when I want. Because there were times I might have cut someone for an ice cube. And I’m only half joking’.

I tell my mom how lucky we are that this didn't hit even 10 years ago.  Nowadays, you can anything, even groceries and prescriptions, delivered right to your doorstep and have thousands of entertainment choices at your fingertips in your own home.  A lot of people can even work from home.  

(07-28-2021, 01:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Which vaccine do we currently have which is no longer a vaccine?

You missed my point. They can call it a vaccine and it can even b technically considered one by science, but it will be viewed in large by regular people as the covid shot if it becomes a yearly thing. Plenty of people are already saying its going to become a yearly shot. Ive heard that on both left and right news, and even my own GP believes it will. The vaccines most people know about over the decades have been one shot deals. If this becomes more that, the public wont see it as a legit vaccine, but more as a flu shot. Or the covid shot. 

(07-28-2021, 12:44 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Nothing I said is misinformation and my original point is still valid. Now go write me another book report 

Claiming the mRNA vaccines aren’t vaccines is completely false thus it is misinformation. Claiming the Covid vaccines don’t prevent the infections, but just reduce symptoms is also completely false and also misinformation. These are just two of the most blatant examples because they reveal just a complete lack of basic info.

(07-28-2021, 12:49 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I dont disagree with that, as long as we can trust that all those covid deaths are actually because of covid, and we just cant right now. There is simply too much evidence to the contrary. And even if they are right, how may of them were needless because some people made poor decisions to put infected people in the nursing homes all over the nation? The very first real outbreak in my town actually happened in a nursing home of all places. Before that hit the local airwaves and newspaper, there were literally less than 20 covid cases in a county of way over 200,000 people. Then it hit one nursing home, then another, then another. At first it was almost like nursing homes were the only ones having outbreaks. It was pretty freakin scary to be honest. Like worst case situation type of thing.

Would you like to produce some evidence? Because I’ll turn them into the government for fraud in a heartbeat because I sure could use the reward money. I’m surprised you don’t need it.

(07-28-2021, 01:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: None of my friends or family have been murdered so I guess that means all the murder stats are fake, right?

Google "excess deaths" and you will see the numbers that confirm the death toll from covid.

Honestly I've already read too many articles from all sides to do that and feel like I'll actually confirm anything. I've read pieces in Huffpo, NPR, Breitfart, Fox, the CDC, Healthline, Mayo Clinic, WHO, etc, etc lol. I dont fully believe most of it, but what I do believe is there is a lot of corruption in this country and the world, especially in big industries. I trust the people I know in person and what Ive seen with my own eyes more than anything I've read at this point. And Im not a covid denier, and still very leery of what will come about with the varieties, knowing it could get worse but hoping it will get better. 

(07-28-2021, 12:21 PM)AussieBengal Wrote: I will say I am in a very bad mood today, so sorry if my replies came across blunt. Our lockdown just got extended for another 4 weeks and I am starting to struggle with it mentally.

Hang in there man. Just like anything else, at some point you will look back and it will just be a memory. Just like everything else in life. Just gotta take a breath and keep the feet moving. 

(07-28-2021, 12:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: In my relative's case, they contracted covid while in the hospital. They were never coming out of the hospital regardless due to age, organ failure, and what put them there in the first place. They were dying. But, since they tested positive while there, they were listed as a covid death. To me, that's a skewed statistic. 

I don’t mean to be rude and if it comes across that way, I apologize.

But, would you say they didn’t pass away until after they contracted Covid? And despite everything else that was killing them, Covid was the tipping point their body couldn’t overcome combined with all of their other conditions?

(07-28-2021, 01:52 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Would you like to produce some evidence? Because I’ll turn them into the government for fraud in a heartbeat because I sure could use the reward money. I’m surprised you don’t need it.

I would never turn someone in for money. Only for moral reasons. But I've heard nurses say things and I've also seen on social media where workers from places around the country have blown the whistle on inflating the numbers. It was literally all over the net back in the early peak of all this. 

(07-28-2021, 01:16 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Everything about this post enforces why I think its not only premature, but also a bit harsh to impose such punishments for NFL players and teams. If the Delta hospitalization rates skyrocket, and death tolls start to rise, combined with the pfizer shot potentially not being as effective against delta, then everything is going to change again big time. I understand some rules and guidelines for the NFL, but what they came up with so far seems ridiculous at this point in time. Now also considering the fact that most NFL players are between the ages of 18-29. I mean it doesnt make sense. Most of the older, higher risk coaches, staff, refs probably already got the shot, I mean, I'm my grandpa's medical poa and yes I got him th shot even after he survived covid. I feel kind of bad now because he reacted badly with it. But players, the young, healthy and least likely group of people to get it, get it bad, die from it, etc are being punished for not wanting the shot? I just dont see how this works out well in the end for many reasons. I think its too early to put those kind of harsh punishments in place where a whole team is punished because one player for something we still dont fully understand or how it will play out. Totally ridiculous if you ask me. Roger Goodell is an idiot. Always had been. 

In the case of the NFL, the owners want a full season with as little BS as possible so they don’t have to cancel games and possibly issue refunds in order to protect their revenue stream. It’s basic capitalism. The owners have tried the carrot. Now they’re using the stick. No one is forcing those players to earn hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per year. If they don’t like their job, employer, or employer’s rules they are free to choose to make tens of thousands someplace else.

If they choose to stay, but not get vaccinated the worst punishment they may receive is the loss of a game check if they don’t play. I don’t know about you, but I don’t get paid if I don’t work, either.

(07-28-2021, 01:26 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Dude if I worked in that environment I would whistleblow for sure lol! This is important stuff. We need to know all the truth and real raw stats with no skew, lies or corruption involved. Its the only way to know the right things to do. And my stance on this is not political to either side and my mind is open to being changed by more and better evidence. 

You don’t need to work in that environment. You just need to suspect fraud is going on, call one phone number, report the suspected fraud, and the government does all the investigation while you sit back, anonymously, waiting for them to cut you a check.

I don’t know about you, but personally, I’d love to stick it to some greedy corporate assholes criminally defrauding the government of millions of our taxpayer’s dollars. Especially if it means I can retire early and spend my time shuttling between the Florida Keys and Montana.

(07-28-2021, 01:35 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Well, honestly it would be based on the theory of evolution and there are too many books, articles, videos, etc to list for that. Mutations happen because this living thing is trying to survive long term so it mutates over time. Same way bacteria becomes antibiotic resistant. Its evolving to ensure its own survival. Do you believe in evolution? Some people dont. 

Okay, that makes sense and acknowledge you’re correct.

(07-28-2021, 01:48 PM)bengaloo Wrote: You missed my point. They can call it a vaccine and it can even b technically considered one by science, but it will be viewed in large by regular people as the covid shot if it becomes a yearly thing.

So still a vaccine. Most people refer to vaccinations as their “shots” and don’t think their shots aren’t vaccines.

Quote:Plenty of people are already saying its going to become a yearly shot. Ive heard that on both left and right news, and even my own GP believes it will. The vaccines most people know about over the decades have been one shot deals. If this becomes more that, the public wont see it as a legit vaccine, but more as a flu shot. Or the covid shot. 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/child/0-18yrs-child-combined-schedule.pdf

Hep B 3 shots
Rotavirus 2 or 3 shots
Diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis 5 shots with Td every 5-10 years, Tdap at least once and with every pregnancy
Hib 3-4 shots
Pneumococcal 4 shots
Polio 4 shots
Flu annually
MMR 2 shots
Varicella 2 shots
Hep A 2 shots
Meningococcal 2 shots
HPV 2-3 shots

Even though I called them shots they’re all vaccines.

(07-28-2021, 02:07 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I would never turn someone in for money. Only for moral reasons. But I've heard nurses say things and I've also seen on social media where workers from places around the country have blown the whistle on inflating the numbers. It was literally all over the net back in the early peak of all this. 

LOL

That’s such a cop out. Putting false information in a patient chart or on a death certificate for reimbursement purposes is illegal, unethical, and immoral. It’s lying. It’s cheating. It’s stealing. If you’re an ethical, moral person then you have an obligation to report criminal activity. The reward is the icing on the cake. Knowing you did the right thing is the freakin’ cake. You could always refuse the reward if you don’t like money because I don’t think the government is going to hold you down and force money into your pockets. But, if they do you can always donate the reward to St. Judes if you don’t want/need it.

(07-28-2021, 03:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: LOL

That’s such a cop out. Putting false information in a patient chart or on a death certificate for reimbursement purposes is illegal, unethical, and immoral. It’s lying. It’s cheating. It’s stealing. If you’re an ethical, moral person then you have an obligation to report criminal activity. The reward is the icing on the cake. Knowing you did the right thing is the freakin’ cake. You could always refuse the reward if you don’t like money because I don’t think the government is going to hold you down and force money into your pockets. But, if they do you can always donate the reward to St. Judes if you don’t want/need it.

Ok I guess its a cop out. If I saw someone putting false information from covid deaths I would report them because its immoral not because of a cash reward. I'm glad that makes you laugh lol. There were people who did report that there was false information being put on patient charts though but from what I saw they were dubbed conspiracy theorist by most people on social media and the news. And then Dr Fauci or the CDC or both said that there was a thing called died with covid and died because of covid and that they were both being counted on the covid death totals despite that it may not have been covid that killed the person. So by their own admission, the numbers are skewed. Especially when you consider in all the false positive tests. There were people who were already dying from something else and they got counted towards covid because they tested positive. Some of those tests had a pretty high false positive rate, again by their own admission. 

(07-28-2021, 02:57 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So still a vaccine. Most people refer to vaccinations as their “shots” and don’t think their shots aren’t vaccines.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/child/0-18yrs-child-combined-schedule.pdf  

Hep B 3 shots
Rotavirus 2 or 3 shots
Diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis 5 shots with Td every 5-10 years, Tdap at least once and with every pregnancy
Hib 3-4 shots
Pneumococcal 4 shots
Polio 4 shots
Flu annually
MMR 2 shots
Varicella 2 shots
Hep A 2 shots
Meningococcal 2 shots
HPV 2-3 shots

Even though I called them shots they’re all vaccines.

But I'm talking about if the covid vaccine becomes a yearly thing like the flu shot, not the amount of doses it takes to be counted as one vaccine. Why does it even matter? If covid vaccines become a yearly thing, my opinion is that people will not really view it as a vaccine whether it is or not. It will be viewed as a yearly covid shot, and a lot like the flu shot. 

(07-28-2021, 01:26 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Organ failure and old age, which was why they were admitted in the first place. 

I know there are people admitted right now who are elderly with heart, failure, kidney failure, or sepsis. If they got Covid it would be the final straw which would break the camel’s back. So which straw is responsible?