(07-28-2021, 09:30 PM)Joelist Wrote: I have no concerns about Carman. The guy was Trevor Lawrence's blindside protector and did it well. Also his scouting reports were consistent in that at the next level he projects as a great Guard. Add in Spain at the other Guard spot and the interior line is FAR better starting this year than it was last year.  Reiff is also a big upgrade over Hart. And having the first Guard off the bench be XSF is a huge improvement over having it be Jordan.

Right now we are projecting at three new OL starters this season compared to last season opening day - and all of the replacements are pretty significant upgrades.

True that Joelist and they are at least making moves trying to have depth behind Hopkins in case.

I like the moves this Offseason, I just think some don't care for the players cause they weren't the ones they wanted.

It is all preference and bringing back Pollack is huge to go along with all these moves.

Reiter was injured, no need to complain about not picking him up. 

(07-29-2021, 01:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True that Joelist and they are at least making moves trying to have depth behind Hopkins in case.

I like the moves this Offseason, I just think some don't care for the players cause they weren't the ones they wanted.

It is all preference and bringing back Pollack is huge to go along with all these moves.

Reiter was injured, no need to complain about not picking him up. 

That is all it! 

(07-28-2021, 07:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought league minimum was less than 700K and you said he signed for 1.1 million. When was he signed? Did he get 1.1 million for hos contract in Cincy (less than 16 games and preseason games)?

My point is accurate fax matters and 700K is not close to 1.1 million in my opinion. I am using your numbers for him.

League minimum is based about how many years of service you have.  2021 is Spain's 7th year.  According to this chart, the league minimum is 1.075 mil for a 7th year player. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cba/minimum/

He's either right at it, or a hair above.

(07-29-2021, 12:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  

Okay, so give me some specifics.  Why is it that Spain played really good last year yet could not get more than a million a year.

I don't know or care why he could "only get a million a year". I do know that he signed in the middle of the week last year and immediately started at LG that week, played 62 snaps and only gave up one pressure. He turned around the next game and played 65 snaps at RT, a position he's never played before. His third game here he played 68 snaps at RG. If we're keeping count here, that's 3 games, 3 different positions, on a new team. To make it even more fun, his 4th game here he split snaps between RG and LG. Finally, from game 12 to the end of the year, he stayed at RG, where he gave up a total of 6 pressure over the last 5 games. 

Maybe i'm just full of shit. Maybe anyone can come off the street and do as well as he did, under those circumstances, on a new team with a new scheme. 

(07-29-2021, 10:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't know or care why he could "only get a million a year". I do know that he signed in the middle of the week last year and immediately started at LG that week, played 62 snaps and only gave up one pressure. He turned around the next game and played 65 snaps at RT, a position he's never played before. His third game here he played 68 snaps at RG. If we're keeping count here, that's 3 games, 3 different positions, on a new team. To make it even more fun, his 4th game here he split snaps between RG and LG. Finally, from game 12 to the end of the year, he stayed at RG, where he gave up a total of 6 pressure over the last 5 games. 

Maybe i'm just full of shit. Maybe anyone can come off the street and do as well as he did, under those circumstances, on a new team with a new scheme. 

Quinton Spain has been nothing but impressive in his time here. I doubt many other players could have come in and been as versatile at as many positions in as short a period of time and played at the level he did. 

Versatility means nothing as far as defining if a player is good. Remember in 2019 when John Jerry signed late and played all those spots out the gate, was "versatile at as many positions in as short a period". Even though he stepped in as a pro and admirably did what he could and all that was asked to do to stabilize the line. Didn't mean he was any good as he remained out of the league and not even able to get the vet minimum Spain got the following year.

(07-30-2021, 08:49 AM)jj22 Wrote: Versatility means nothing as far as defining if a player is good. Remember in 2019 when John Jerry signed late and played all those spots out the gate, was "versatile at as many positions in as short a period". Even though he stepped in as a pro and admirably did what he could and all that was asked to do to stabilize the line. Didn't mean he was any good as he remained out of the league and not even able to get the vet minimum Spain got the following year.

Whatever.... the problems we had on oline last year had nothing to do with Quinton Spain's play.

(07-30-2021, 10:06 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Whatever.... the problems we had on oline last year had nothing to do with Quinton Spain's play.

And the problem we had in 2019 had nothing to do with Jerry's play. Your point? Unlike yours mine was clear. Versatility and coming in and having to play a bunch of positions the first couple weeks to help stabilize a line means nothing as it relates to if the player is worthy of a starting spot or really any good. It's why Jerry is out of the league, and Spain as admirable a job he did couldn't get much more than Vet minimum. If you don't want to look at the Jerry example then ignore the post. But the Jerry example is legitimate and very close to the Spain circumstance last year.

I think Spain has a starting spot just because. Do we think he'd start on another line? Doesn't seem like the interest was there outside of the Bengals who didn't even pay him as a starter.

I don't know why you be so triggered by my posts. I guess I should be flattered, but I continue to think it's lame.

(07-29-2021, 10:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Maybe i'm just full of shit. 

Either you or every NFL scout for every team.

Guess who my money is on.

(07-30-2021, 10:09 AM)jj22 Wrote: And the problem we had in 2019 had nothing to do with Jerry's play. Your point? Unlike yours mine was clear. Versatility and coming in and having to play a bunch of positions the first couple weeks to help stabilize a line means nothing as it relates to if the player is worthy of a starting spot or really any good. It's why Jerry is out of the league, and Spain as admirable a job he did couldn't get much more than Vet minimum. If you don't want to look at the Jerry example then ignore the post. But the Jerry example is legitimate and very close to the Spain circumstance last year.

I think Spain has a starting spot just because. Do we think he'd start on another line? Doesn't seem like the interest was there outside of the Bengals who didn't even pay him as a starter.

I don't know why you be so triggered by my posts. I guess I should be flattered, but I continue to think it's lame.

(07-30-2021, 10:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Either you or every NFL scout for every team.

Guess who my money is on.

You're both lost and if i had feelings, i'd be sad right now. 

(07-30-2021, 10:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Either you or every NFL scout for every team.

Guess who my money is on.

You praise Bobby Hart for his 'great' improvement even though that improvement left him as low end RT, defend his honor to the ends of the earth, yet shit all over Spain and say he's not worth much, after how he moved around all last year and still played better than Hart, by a long shot. 

Guess who my money is on?

(07-30-2021, 10:52 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're both lost and if i had feelings, i'd be sad right now. 

I'm lost about my memory about Jerry? Please clarify for me what I got wrong? Was he not signed late? Did he not play multiple positions - out of position including LT? Did he not do an admirable job? Did he not help stabilize the line? Did that not help him get a starting job (or any job) or help consider him a good player? 

I'll wait. Folks around here think taking shots somehow means something, but in actuality, it just means the poster can't deny the point made was legit or offer up some sort of response to claim the point was wrong and thus all they have is shots.

(07-30-2021, 11:23 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You praise Bobby Hart for his 'great' improvement even though that improvement left him as low end RT, defend his honor to the ends of the earth, yet shit all over Spain and say he's not worth much, after how he moved around all last year and still played better than Hart, by a long shot. 

Guess who my money is on?

For all Hart’s great improvement he’s making the exact same money as Spain this year.

(07-30-2021, 11:23 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You praise Bobby Hart for his 'great' improvement even though that improvement left him as low end RT, defend his honor to the ends of the earth, yet shit all over Spain and say he's not worth much, after how he moved around all last year and still played better than Hart, by a long shot. 

Guess who my money is on?

Hart did improve, pretty much all agreed on that. Doesn't mean he was good or worthy of a starting spot. I don't think anyone is "shitting" on Spain. We as a fan base are just embarrassing ourselves by putting him on some pedestal when he'd likely be out of the league if not for the Bengals (let alone starting - with fans considering him the answer to a bad line)

I know we are desperate with hope the line improves, but we can't lose track of reality in the process.

(07-30-2021, 10:52 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're both lost and if i had feelings, i'd be sad right now. 

This is exactly the kind of thing people say when they can't address the facts.

(07-30-2021, 11:23 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You praise Bobby Hart for his 'great' improvement even though that improvement left him as low end RT, 

I can post multiple stats that show Hart was in the top half of the league among the top half of all RTs in 2019.

I trashed him after his terrible 2018 season and after he declined in 2020 I agreed he needed to go.

(07-30-2021, 11:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'm lost about my memory about Jerry? Please clarify for me what I got wrong? Was he not signed late? Did he not play multiple positions - out of position including LT? Did he not do an admirable job? Did he not help stabilize the line? Did that not help him get a starting job (or any job) or help consider him a good player? 

I'll wait. Folks around here think taking shots somehow means something, but in actuality, it just means the poster can't deny the point made was legit or offer up some sort of response to claim the point was wrong and thus all they have is shots.

Who cares about Jerry. I'm talking about Spain and the work he did last year moving positions so many times and how he improved (and helped improve the line) once they locked him into one position. 6 total pressure over the last 5 games. 

Not to mention, his grades were far better the years preceeding him joining the Bengals (where they moved him around like a hidden ball trick) last year, so his track record is good enough to be a starter. 

(07-30-2021, 11:41 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not to mention, his grades were far better the years preceeding him joining the Bengals 

What was his "grade" last year with the Bills before they released him.

(07-30-2021, 11:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'm lost about my memory about Jerry? Please clarify for me what I got wrong? Was he not signed late? Did he not play multiple positions - out of position including LT? Did he not do an admirable job? Did he not help stabilize the line? Did that not help him get a starting job (or any job) or help consider him a good player? 

I'll wait. Folks around here think taking shots somehow means something, but in actuality, it just means the poster can't deny the point made was legit or offer up some sort of response to claim the point was wrong and thus all they have is shots.

Sorry, i saw "jerry" and didn't read the rest of your post. 

John Jerry, in 2019 played LT exclusively for his first 8 games as a Bengal then played 9 snaps at RG his last game. His pressure numbers are easily worse than Spain's. 

(07-29-2021, 10:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Maybe i'm just full of shit. Maybe anyone can come off the street and do as well as he did, under those circumstances, on a new team with a new scheme. 

I cared to bring up Jerry based off of this comment (and highlighting what all Spain did as if we hadn't just seen it the year prior).

I could have just taken a shot at you, but I actually thought I could answer this question, as we had an example of this way back in 2019 (as you likely forgot).