(08-03-2021, 08:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why shouldn't the defense be really good?  They endured a ton of injuries last season, yet played their tails off in most games.  They haven't lost any critical pieces yet, so why can't they actually be good?

I'm sure hoping they are really good and the O is just going thru some growing pains.

(08-03-2021, 08:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why shouldn't the defense be really good?  They endured a ton of injuries last season, yet played their tails off in most games.  They haven't lost any critical pieces yet, so why can't they actually be good?

Because they were the 26th overall defense and 32nd in sacks? After being 29th and 26th in 2019.

Other than getting Reader back (they were a bad defense even with Reader) most of their additions were basically swaps with roughly equivalent talent players. (Lawson/Hendrickson, Jackson/Waynes, Alexander/Aquzie). Lou is certainly not a defensive mastermind at DC.

That's not a defense/DC that should be able to shut down Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Boyd/Mixon unless something is wrong with the offense.

(08-03-2021, 09:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because they were the 26th overall defense and 32nd in sacks? After being 29th and 26th in 2019.

Other than getting Reader back (they were a bad defense even with Reader) most of their additions were basically swaps with roughly equivalent talent players. (Lawson/Hendrickson, Jackson/Waynes, Alexander/Aquzie). Lou is certainly not a defensive mastermind at DC.

That's not a defense/DC that should be able to shut down Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Boyd/Mixon unless something is wrong with the offense.

Yeah, that is easy to say, but that does not take attitude and energy into account.  At base level, most NFL level talent is in the same ball park, personality and attitude account for a lot, and can make a huge difference in overall spirit and temperament of a unit.

(08-03-2021, 08:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm sure hoping they are really good and the O is just going thru some growing pains.

Obviously, we're all hoping that is the case.  However, I would have liked to have seen them take a more vested interest in improving the talent stock of OL personnel.

(08-03-2021, 06:58 PM)pally Wrote: except right now they are installing the offense so they run the play they are learning regardless of what play the defense may be working on.  What they would do in a game situation is not what they are doing right now.  

This is basically the issue when it comes to 11 on 11 during training camp.

The Offense isnt calling plays to take advantage of what formation the defense is in. They have a list of plays they want to install and just go down that list no matter if its actually a bad play call for what the defense is doing.

(08-03-2021, 07:03 PM)bengaloo Wrote:

Thanks for the vid Bengaloo. Very honest. We need depth on the OL and Burrow needs to have confidence in that knee.

We signed Hubbard right before he blows up the league IMO. Really think he just worked his ass off all Offseason to become 
that great pass rusher we needed and with Hendrickson across from him, Ossai, Kareem, Cam Sample we could have a good 
pass rush this year if both the starting DT's and the Ends can stay healthy.

Not worried. I would be more worried if our depth OL guys were handling players like Sam and Trey.

Think our starting OL will be much better than last season, much better but after that it just falls off a cliff. Add depth here.

Very telling about our WR's still not getting separation even with Chase. Shows how weak we were after Boyd and Tee and 
shows how good our Secondary can be.

(08-03-2021, 08:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you sure that it's Burrow?  Couldn't be the shitty OL, now could it?

I'm not sure from my own eyes, just basing it off what Tony Pike said about Burrow's play, but I kind of expected him to have to find his groove again after surgery. Overall I'm not worried about the offense yet. 1st day of pads. I think they will improve over time. But yeah the OL still has a lot to prove and a long way to go. They were owned today, especially Smith the rookie. 

(08-03-2021, 09:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for the vid Bengaloo. Very honest. We need depth on the OL and Burrow needs to have confidence in that knee.

We signed Hubbard right before he blows up the league IMO. Really think he just worked his ass off all Offseason to become 
that great pass rusher we needed and with Hendrickson across from him, Ossai, Kareem, Cam Sample we could have a good 
pass rush his year if both the starting DT's and the Ends can stay healthy.

Not worried. I would be more worried if our depth OL guys were handling players like Sam and Trey.

Think our starting OL will be much better than last season, much better but after that it just falls off a cliff. Add depth here.

Very telling about our WR's still not getting separation even with Chase. Shows how weak we were after Boyd and Tee and 
shows how good our Secondary can be.

I'm not worried either at this point. We were playing our 3rd string OT Smith and Hubbard owned him which is expected. You're right, the key is depth. I think we have some guys who can make up a solid starting lineup but we should be looking to bring in another FA or 2 for better depth. Overall I'm happy the defense is off to a good start. I would love to see Hubbard have a career year in sacks this year. I'm liking the reports of the secondary and how they are coming together as a close nit unit. If they are getting good coverage good for them. Our WR's and Burrow will find their stride as things come together. First day in pads and Rieff and Johnson were both out is not a good look though lol. 

Burrow starting slow should be expected. Palmer didn't fully trust the knee either (he had the arm to make up for it so the stats looked good) in 2006. Burrow has to step into his throws, and when he is able to confidently, the offense will improve.

Until then they need to run the ball. "Establish the run", something I haven't heard since the Marvin years. I'll be looking to ZT to better protect Burrow to start the season with a real run game (if he's got any sense). No more play action getting Burrow killed because no one feared the run. That's got to change.

No pass heavy game plan. No empty sets. Play ball control and rely (if you can) on the "emerging" D.

(08-03-2021, 11:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: Burrow starting slow should be expected. Palmer didn't fully trust the knee either (he had the arm to make up for it so the stats looked good) in 2006. Burrow has to step into his throws, and when he is able to confidently, the offense will improve.

Until then they need to run the ball. "Establish the run", something I haven't heard since the Marvin years. I'll be looking to ZT to better protect Burrow to start the season with a real run game (if he's got any sense). No more play action getting Burrow killed because no one feared the run. That's got to change.

No pass heavy game plan. No empty sets. Play ball control and rely (if you can) on the "emerging" D.

More of a reason to actually get him in some plays in preseason... the idea of him taking his first real live snap without real contact does not bode well to me..

We will know a lot more after about preseason game #2.

(08-03-2021, 03:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: Mike Petraglia
@Trags
Vonn Bell on D attitude change “Guys (have) bought in. … they don’t take it personal. … that’s the thing from last year, everything was personal, guys were pointing fingers.” #Bengals

Dunlap maybe? Or who knows, but the finger pointing is never good when righting a ship. Hopefully the page has turned (even if coaches remain).

Most of Marvin's guys didn't seem to buy into Lou and company. Now, I don't fully blame them, but this D is fully Lou's now. The only "Marvin" guys that are starting on D are Bates and Hubbard, and they've been with Zac/Lou longer than Marvin.

The offense struggling may be due to an improved defense. But, if our DL (hopefully better) is manhandling our OL then finding out the weaknesses now in camp is the the time to do it. If so, hopefully we trade or upgrade the OL thru FA prior to week #1.

(08-03-2021, 11:05 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I'm not worried either at this point. We were playing our 3rd string OT Smith and Hubbard owned him which is expected. You're right, the key is depth. I think we have some guys who can make up a solid starting lineup but we should be looking to bring in another FA or 2 for better depth. Overall I'm happy the defense is off to a good start. I would love to see Hubbard have a career year in sacks this year. I'm liking the reports of the secondary and how they are coming together as a close nit unit. If they are getting good coverage good for them. Our WR's and Burrow will find their stride as things come together. First day in pads and Rieff and Johnson were both out is not a good look though lol. 

If our starting line looks like this most of the year we should be okay...

LT - Jonah Williams
LG - Quinton Spain/XSF
C - Trey Hopkins
RG - Carman/XSF
RT - Riley Reiff

But after those guys not sure about anything. I like Trey Hill and D'Ante Smith's upside but they are rookies.

I have no confidence in MJ or Price at all, we will see if they improve significantly.

Joe is getting the day off today. And team is off tomorrow so he gets 2 days in a row

(08-04-2021, 10:42 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The offense struggling may be due to an improved defense. But, if our DL (hopefully better) is manhandling our OL then finding out the weaknesses now in camp is the the time to do it. If so, hopefully we trade or upgrade the OL thru FA prior to week #1.

Pike said a day off may be needed to right Burrow. Hopefully he returns rejuvenated. I was interested to see how Allen faired against the Defense, and it sounds like the D was equally dominant today. If he would have lit them up then it would have been telling. They dominated him too which doesn't look good for the offense and receivers, but at least it may not all be on Burrow.

(08-03-2021, 09:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because they were the 26th overall defense and 32nd in sacks? After being 29th and 26th in 2019.

Other than getting Reader back (they were a bad defense even with Reader) most of their additions were basically swaps with roughly equivalent talent players. (Lawson/Hendrickson, Jackson/Waynes, Alexander/Aquzie). Lou is certainly not a defensive mastermind at DC.

That's not a defense/DC that should be able to shut down Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Boyd/Mixon unless something is wrong with the offense.

If the Bengals aren't careful, they could be approaching another lost decade.
They've had a losing record every year for the past 5 seasons.
If the team only gains a couple wins every season, it could be a few more until they have a winning season again.

(08-04-2021, 03:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If the Bengals aren't careful, they could be approaching another lost decade.
They've had a losing record every year for the past 5 seasons.
If the team only gains a couple wins every season, it could be a few more until they have a winning season again.

I'm not too worried about the decade yet. Figure Zac is gone after this year, that leaves whoever comes next 8 years to make the 2020's not suck for the Bengals. The optimist hasn't been beaten out of me THAT much yet that I can't hope the next guy doesn't suck.

(08-04-2021, 03:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Pike said a day off may be needed to right Burrow. Hopefully he returns rejuvenated. I was interested to see how Allen faired against the Defense, and it sounds like the D was equally dominant today. If he would have lit them up then it would have been telling. They dominated him too which doesn't look good for the offense and receivers, but at least it may not all be on Burrow.

ZT is a bit too fond of giving days off for my liking.  You've got to hit your way out of a slump, don't you?