(07-31-2021, 07:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Andrew Whitworth was also a second round pick projected to play OG.

He did not win a starting job and only got his chance a few games into the season when Levi Jones was injured,

Our line was better when Whit was drafted than it is now. We can't much afford to wait. Certainly not as much as we could in 2006.

(08-06-2021, 08:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Our line was better when Whit was drafted than it is now. We can't much afford to wait. Certainly not as much as we could in 2006.

Facts.
We need help right now that’s why we were so big on a couple of free agent olineman cuz we knew they could come in right now and help protect burrow. We now have more question marks on the line. Smh

(08-06-2021, 09:49 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Facts.
We need help right now that’s why we were so big on a couple of free agent olineman cuz we knew they could come in right now and help protect burrow. We now have more question marks on the line. Smh

Going cheap on the line has its pitfalls. We know this all too well…

The issue is, for the ZT haters, he's going to legitimately have a reason to stay if Carman is indeed a project. Dude may be a bad coach, sure, but no coach is going to win with last year's line + Reiff and some guys WORSE than last year.

(08-06-2021, 09:59 PM)Benton Wrote: The issue is, for the ZT haters, he's going to legitimately have a reason to stay if Carman is indeed a project. Dude may be a bad coach, sure, but no coach is going to win with last year's line + Reiff and some guys WORSE than last year.

I don’t see how anyone could be worse than Michael Jordan was last year. And Marvin won 6 games his final season while trotting out guys like Alex Redmond, Billy Price, and Bobby Hart as starters.

No. More. Excuses. For. Taylor.

Double your win total from last year or you’re gone.

It's hard enough to come back from a theismann without playing behind a patchwork line. If it's true that Joey's suffering a mental block on top of everything else, that can't be helping. Either way, his body language has not been good and I can't blame him. It's up to Pollack to sort this out. That's what we were told he would do, anyway.

(08-06-2021, 08:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Our line was better when Whit was drafted than it is now. We can't much afford to wait. Certainly not as much as we could in 2006.

But my point was that Whit struggled when he was forced to start as a rookie.

(08-06-2021, 10:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t see how anyone could be worse than Michael Jordan was last year. And Marvin won 6 games his final season while trotting out guys like Alex Redmond, Billy Price, and Bobby Hart as starters.

No. More. Excuses. For. Taylor.

Double your win total from last year or you’re gone.

If Taylor underachieves this year he should be fired before season’s end. In almost any other organization he would have already been fired.

(08-06-2021, 09:59 PM)Benton Wrote: The issue is, for the ZT haters, he's going to legitimately have a reason to stay if Carman is indeed a project. Dude may be a bad coach, sure, but no coach is going to win with last year's line + Reiff and some guys WORSE than last year.

It’s not Taylor’s fault that management refused to put money needed to have an average or above average o line- which is beyond belief when you draft a potentially generational talent like burrow and what happened to him last year because of atrocious interior blocking

How can management watch the games the last two years and think that price could play center or that we didn’t need a serious upgrade at center and guard?

(08-07-2021, 10:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But my point was that Whit struggled when he was forced to start as a rookie.

I think your missing Shake's point that back when Whit was a rookie their offensive line was very good and he had time to learn and grow. We have no room for that with this current lineup and need plug and play starters today. There is no luxury to give time for a player to develop behind another solid player.

(08-06-2021, 10:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t see how anyone could be worse than Michael Jordan was last year. And Marvin won 6 games his final season while trotting out guys like Alex Redmond, Billy Price, and Bobby Hart as starters.

No. More. Excuses. For. Taylor.

Double your win total from last year or you’re gone.

At least double it. 9+ wins or GTFO.

(08-07-2021, 12:41 PM)bengals67 Wrote: How can management watch the games the last two years and think that price could play center or that we didn’t need a serious upgrade at center and guard?

Thats a rabbit hole you could get lost going down. But also a fun game....

For example, 

"How can management watch the games the last two years and think yeah lets keep Lou as DC for a third year"

(08-07-2021, 03:21 PM)GodFather Wrote: I think your missing Shake's point that back when Whit was a rookie their offensive line was very good and he had time to learn and grow. We have no room for that with this current lineup and need plug and play starters today. There is no luxury to give time for a player to develop behind another solid player.

The draft is about taking the player who will give you the most value over his career.  It would have been stupid to draft a lesser player just because he was more ready to play his rookie year.

(08-08-2021, 09:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The draft is about taking the player who will give you the most value over his career.  It would have been stupid to draft a lesser player just because he was more ready to play his rookie year.

That’s ridiculous. If a player is a day one starter from draft he will only get better in time. To say Jackson will give you more value is a pipe dream. He could or couldn’t you just don’t know until the season starts.

This team isn’t in a position to think of building up players for tomorrow when Addressing and changes need to be done today!

(08-08-2021, 04:52 PM)GodFather Wrote: That’s ridiculous. If a player is a day one starter from draft he will only get better in time. To say Jackson will give you more value is a pipe dream. He could or couldn’t you just don’t know until the season starts.

This team isn’t in a position to think of building up players for tomorrow when Addressing and changes need to be done today!

(08-08-2021, 09:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The draft is about taking the player who will give you the most value over his career.  It would have been stupid to draft a lesser player just because he was more ready to play his rookie year.

I think this is BS. For one, I don't see Carman as a guy with massive hidden upside...at least not compared to similar prospects. Also - and this is the main thing - the most value is with a guy who can protect our franchise player (and his surgically repaired knee) right now.

(08-08-2021, 05:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think this is BS. For one, I don't see Carman as a guy with massive hidden upside...at least not compared to similar prospects. Also - and this is the main thing - the most value is with a guy who can protect our franchise player (and his surgically repaired knee) right now.

O-line isn’t important when you have 3 studs at wide receiver



Or at least that’s what a percentage of posters here actually believe

(08-08-2021, 05:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: O-line isn’t important when you have 3 studs at wide receiver



Or at least that’s what a percentage of posters here actually believe

Yeah, I did hear a lot about how fast WRs will create separation quicker, which will supposedly lower the amount of sacks/hits.

(08-06-2021, 09:59 PM)Benton Wrote: The issue is, for the ZT haters, he's going to legitimately have a reason to stay if Carman is indeed a project. Dude may be a bad coach, sure, but no coach is going to win with last year's line + Reiff and some guys WORSE than last year.

Don't forget that he's really just a rookie head coach because of a million reasons and it would be unfair (violins playing in the background) to let him go without giving him a real chance to be a decent HC. 

 

(08-08-2021, 04:52 PM)GodFather Wrote: That’s ridiculous. If a player is a day one starter from draft he will only get better in time. To say Jackson will give you more value is a pipe dream. He could or couldn’t you just don’t know until the season starts.

Then please tell me who all of these immediate starters we were supposed to have drafted.  Who were these "can't miss" prospects we passed on that would have re-stocked our O-line with instant starters.

(08-08-2021, 04:52 PM)GodFather Wrote: This team isn’t in a position to think of building up players for tomorrow when Addressing and changes need to be done today!

Except history has proven that the best teams develope players they draft instead of trying to address every need with veteran free agents.