(08-09-2021, 05:14 PM)jj22 Wrote: Aside from the Sewell/Chase debate.

More bad press on a top pick.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/09/should-the-jamarr-chase-expectations-be-tempered/


This after Hobsin mentioned the struggles.

Will we have another Burrow/Herbert situation on our hands this season with Chase/Waddle (who has had a great camp)? Even if wideout was the right pick, is the bad press coming from all camps even the home page an alarming sign?

It's still early to panic, but admittedly this has been a rough start for our top 2 picks, and the reviews haven't been what we all would have hoped.

I'd rather see all the doubts in preseason and then see them turn it on when the real bullets start to fly, rather than get all the hype now and then wonder what happened when they're half way through the season. 

(08-09-2021, 09:44 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Every single rep is not what people are asking for but they def don’t want to hear about the repeated drops and lack of separation from someone who had this incredible vertical shuttle and 40 time and that we took top 5.  U can lose a couple reps here and there but no being able to separate multiple drops can’t win the jump ball consistently that’s shit u here about ur 4th and 5th rounders not ur top 5 damn pick cmon guys.

None of the WR's have gotten a lot of separation all camp and Taylor chalked it up to being in the install phase and the D knowing the routes.  Chase has consistently been in the TC highlights every day and has already moved past Tate on the depth chart, so I think he's doing ok.  With all the money they've dropped on the secondary, it would also be a big concern if a rookie just stepped in and beat up on everybody the first week of camp, too.  

You don't like to hear about drops, but they happen in TC.  Boyd, Higgins, and Tate have all had drops, too.  

(08-09-2021, 11:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: None of the WR's have gotten a lot of separation all camp and Taylor chalked it up to being in the install phase and the D knowing the routes.  Chase has consistently been in the TC highlights every day and has already moved past Tate on the depth chart, so I think he's doing ok.  With all the money they've dropped on the secondary, it would also be a big concern if a rookie just stepped in and beat up on everybody the first week of camp, too.  

You don't like to hear about drops, but they happen in TC.  Boyd, Higgins, and Tate have all had drops, too.  

All truth.

(08-09-2021, 10:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd rather see all the doubts in preseason and then see them turn it on when the real bullets start to fly, rather than get all the hype now and then wonder what happened when they're half way through the season. 

Same.

Chase will be fine. He did not play last year and is both adjusting to the NFL game AND absorbing a new offense. These things take time.

This draft will either be amazing or complete shit.

I guess you could say that about just about any draft, but this one feels especially boom or bust-y to me.

Chase could be a world beater with elite physicality and speed or he could be a 1 year wonder who benefited from a stacked offense having the run of their lives who is not fast enough to separate in the NFL and not big enough to jump over corners in the NFL.

Carman could be a Whitworth level tackle -> guard conversion project, or he could be so bad that Michael Jordan starts over him.

Ossai could be a toolsy pass rusher with all the talent you could ever want in a DE, or he could be an unpolished DE with below average get off and limited use in run defense.

Cam Sample could be a dominant bull rusher who moves inside on passing downs and wreaks havoc on the offense or he could be too slow to effectively create a pass rush from the outside.

D'Ante Smith could be an elite, athletic tackle or he could be Ogbuehi.

This may just be my perception, but I'm not sure many of these guys will have middling, decent careers. Many boom or bust choices.

I'm hopeful we trend towards the boom side.

(08-09-2021, 08:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why can’t we just regret not taking someone else in the 2nd? Or more importantly not doing more in FA? Why does EVERYTHING hinge on a single draft pick?

Felt the first two picks should have been used on O-line actually and never said either Chase or Carman was a bust at all. 

In fact said the opposite about Chase even though I wanted a lineman and am not giving up at all on Carman who is a rookie switching positions. 

Theres going to be a learning curve for Carman before we even know much and would not be abnormal even if he succeeds to not step until week 5 or 6 of regular season.  

Yet a top 5 pick is expected to contribute heavily immediately so more does hinge on the Chase selection. If he is not a star people will always second guess this pick. That being said I believe Chase will be a star but if Burrow gets hurt again then it won't burn as bright. 

Didn't really care how Bengals went about fixing line. Yet O-line had to be a top priority in my book after last years debacle and believe they did try to upgrade, but only with bare minimal effort. All things will have to work perfectly without injuries to pan out and hope they do actually.
Also liked adding Reiff in FA but he may not be here very long and could be a one year guy and needed to stockpile a few especially with the whiffs we've had on O-lineman in recent history.     
Yet I do understand the Chase pick per Burrow lobbying for him so hard and have always liked the kid. Did not need our new shiny franchise QB disgruntled. Plus being a covid year I believe teams relied on x-teammates to vouch for players work ethic and give scouting report more than usual.  

I was 100% on the Sewell was the right pick side, but it's way too early to call out any player. Sure, the report of "drops" and lack of seperation is a little concerning but until he's played in a few games that mean something none of it matters. Dude could look like Ted Ginn Jr all Pre-season and still turn it on when it matters.

The only time it is safe to debate if the pick was a mistake will be near the season's end. Same thing I said about Carman, and same opinion I'd have on any draft pick from this class. Maybe they don't practice well and perform when it matters, maybe they practice well and suck in game action, maybe they just need time to adjust to a new world of football. Let's give them a season (how about a few weeks for those who lose it in gameday threads and quit on the team after a fumble) and then start to see if there is cause for concern.

(08-09-2021, 08:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why can’t we just regret not taking someone else in the 2nd? Or more importantly not doing more in FA? Why does EVERYTHING hinge on a single draft pick?

I actually said this in a previous thread. If they knew that they were going to go Chase at 5, they should have been more out in front of things in FA or even the trade market (What could Pollack have done with Isaiah Wilson or Gabe Jackson??). It just felt like there wasn't a real sense of urgency, and that has led to my frustration.

(08-10-2021, 12:08 AM)Joelist Wrote: Chase will be fine. He did not play last year and is both adjusting to the NFL game AND absorbing a new offense. These things take time.

Our top 5 pick and our 1st overall pick aren't going to get any real experience together until the regular season which already has me worried that 2021 can be written off as a recovery/evaluation year and we won't be able to judge if ZT is truly any good until after 2022.  Of course, I'm just a big ol' scaredy cat, so take that as you will.

I get the idea of holding off judgment on Burrow and Chase and Carman and Mixon and so on and so forth, but we aren't going to see Burrow and the o-line and our top 5 WR pick in action together until the regular season.  I'm not concerned about W/L stuff, but even the super bowl champ Buccaneers didn't "get it together" until after their week 13 bye so I'm just fearing a whole lot of "can't judge, wait and see, this all doesn't count" going on this year.  I get it, Burrow is going to be here for 15+ years so 2021 might not mean anything in the long-run...I guess.  Ok, that's the extreme view, but you get the idea.

I'm just saying that I can see 2021 not being the "year we find out if XYZ is good" kind of year we were talking about all off-season.

Way too early to be talking like this about our draft picks.

Additionally I was always concerned about Chase/Sewell and anyone else who was out of football last year. Some rust and growing pains are to be expected for any rookie, especially those who didn’t play last season.

(08-10-2021, 01:02 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I actually said this in a previous thread. If they knew that they were going to go Chase at 5, they should have been more out in front of things in FA or even the trade market (What could Pollack have done with Isaiah Wilson or Gabe Jackson??). It just felt like there wasn't a real sense of urgency, and that has led to my frustration.

When in the history of Mike Brown has the front office EVER showed a sense of urgency? We could be decimated by injuries to one particular group of players (say, offensive line or defensive backs) and the front office would STILL just cruise along doing the same thing they've always done: the bare minimum.

From the doubters.......Chase = John Ross. 

From the kool aid drinkers.......Chase = the 2nd coming of Randy Moss. 



I'm somewhere in the middle.  Happy we got Chase and hopeful he turns into a solid WR for us for years to come.  But also, acknowledging the fact he's in his very first TC and hasn't even seen his first game yet.  

Ups and downs, strikes and gutters......its all part of the process.  



I remember reading a report back in the day on ESPN's website about when Jerry Rice was a rookie receiver, he had a practice once where he dropped every ball thrown his way, never had a single catch in that practice.   The coaches were thinking of dropping him right after that practice, but Joe Cool talked them out of it, asked them to give him one more shot at the next practice.  

(08-09-2021, 05:14 PM)jj22 Wrote: Aside from the Sewell/Chase debate.

More bad press on a top pick.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/09/should-the-jamarr-chase-expectations-be-tempered/


This after Hobsin mentioned the struggles.

Will we have another Burrow/Herbert situation on our hands this season with Chase/Waddle (who has had a great camp)? Even if wideout was the right pick, is the bad press coming from all camps even the home page an alarming sign?

It's still early to panic, but admittedly this has been a rough start for our top 2 picks, and the reviews haven't been what we all would have hoped.

Maybe we should ask opposing CBs that have to cover him week 1 how they feel about covering him instead of the zero-separation AJ Green?  

I know, I know...now the theory is AJ was bagging it last year and looks amazing in AZ.  We will see when the games start.

That all being said, we have to give it three years before you can really judge a pick.  Three years.  Right now, the Heisman winner is already out injured.  I don't hear everyone crying about that?  

I strongly believe that Chase will be an amazing addition to this team.  

If everyone didn't hear the press conference, Joe Burrow came out and put a lot of the struggles of the offense in 11-on-11 on him. He said he isn't quite right yet. He just doesn't have the pocket feel yet, and they are doing things like having coaches stand around him to have him get used to bodies around him.

He remained confident that he just needed more reps and that he can feel it coming, and I think it is just another example of his leadership taking pressure off the oline and receivers that he feels once he gets his pocket feel down, it will all click.'

If we all remember, last season the WRs had drops, the offensive line sucked, and he still delivered on-the-money throws to those players. As he has basically said, he will be that guy again very soon.

(08-10-2021, 10:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Maybe we should ask opposing CBs that have to cover him week 1 how they feel about covering him instead of the zero-separation AJ Green?  

They did ask the top corners from the SEC prior to the draft who the top receiver they had the hardest time covering in college, and to a man they said Ja"Marr Chase. I can't believe we're even having this conversation.

(08-10-2021, 10:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If everyone didn't hear the press conference, Joe Burrow came out and put a lot of the struggles of the offense in 11-on-11 on him. He said he isn't quite right yet. He just doesn't have the pocket feel yet, and they are doing things like having coaches stand around him to have him get used to bodies around him.

He remained confident that he just needed more reps and that he can feel it coming, and I think it is just another example of his leadership taking pressure off the oline and receivers that he feels once he gets his pocket feel down, it will all click.'

If we all remember, last season the WRs had drops, the offensive line sucked, and he still delivered on-the-money throws to those players. As he has basically said, he will be that guy again very soon.

Literally an hour after he said that, he had the best practice of TC (Saturday) and continued to roll on the next practice (Sunday).

Don't think they'll struggle like they did last week, for the rest of TC.

(08-10-2021, 11:00 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Literally an hour after he said that, he had the best practice of TC (Saturday) and continued to roll on the next practice (Sunday).

Don't think they'll struggle like they did last week, for the rest of TC.

Yep, and he admitted that the two full days off (which he protested at the time) was needed and he feels fresh and sharp.  

(08-09-2021, 09:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, that dude has taken his user name a little too seriously lmao!

Lol fair enough but my point is that when u take a guy fifth overall I understand losing the occasional battle here and there but hearing that he’s Had a lot of drops to hear he’s not winning jump balls and to hear he can’t consistently create separation is not what ur supposed to hear about ur 5th overall pick.

(08-10-2021, 10:52 AM)Sled21 Wrote: They did ask the top corners from the SEC prior to the draft who the top receiver they had the hardest time covering in college, and to a man they said Ja"Marr Chase. I can't believe we're even having this conversation.

I get it.  They have seen recent failures from guys with incredible college tape (Ross) and there seems to be a curse on our first round picks, at least from a health standpoint, of late.  

However, Chase is the missing piece for this offense to be really lethal.  I strongly believe that.  He can do so much.  He can open up the middle by being the deep threat.   If his guy is playing off him, he can make him miss on a quick hitch or screen.  He is build like a RB and has ridiculous YAC.

I also love the intangibles.  He wasn't always ranked the top guy, but his attitude was "Yes, I am the top guy...and I will show you", breaking records at every level.  I also sheepishly love what I am seeing with Joe, Chase, Moss, and Shelvin being a core group of guys from a team that knew how to put it together.  They seem to have so much accountability for such young guys.

I know this will sound a little fanboy, but this Bengals team has the chance to have really good chemistry with no jerks and a bunch of team-first, positive attitude guys.  That is what ZT wants and I think the major talent voids have been addressed (yes even on the offensive line).  If you don't think that matters, watch what is going on next door at GABP.  This is the no excuses season, and Chase is going to help this team win a lot of games THIS YEAR.