(08-16-2021, 02:36 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Carman has a way to go and that's fine. He's a rookie and changing positions at the highest level. Expecting him to come in and start seemed a little high expectations, but there are plenty that know more about him than me. If he doesn't start, that's okay. Maybe he starts next year.

On the flip side, I must say after 1 preseason game I am impressed with Smith. Everything I read on the guy said he was a project that was 1-2 years away from being ready to contribute. Maybe I don't remember correctly, but projects haven't seemed to often benefit us. Not saying none have, but our track record seems to be low on projects. He looked good though and posted a 84-something pass pro grade. If he contributes earlier, even better.

Still way to early to tell, but overall the OLine didn't look bad. Jordan played okay*, Price played okay, the rookies played okay. Vogel was the only one that stood out to me as bad. As with everyone, there was hit and miss, but most of the OLine seemed at least okay to me except him.

As for Sewell. I wanted us to draft him. As soon as we took Chase, that ship sailed. There's no sense to argue the pick and I honestly don't care what Sewell does. My focus and hope is on the players we actually drafted. I want them all to turn out to be positive contributors. I am much more concerned with how the players we actually drafted perform than those we didn't.

Edit to add: * = I'm not saying okay as in "just okay", I mean it positively.

D'Ante is way ahead of where we all thought he would be at this point. Zac even says so.

He is pushing for a starting spot already. Carman played solid. Like you said, only Vogel looked bad. Pretty awesome to say this.

Didn't expect this this early against the defending Champs who have one of the best DL's in all of football. 

Said before the game that it would be a miracle if we didn't struggle against these guys. A miracle happened.

Maybe Pollack is a miracle worker after all lol

(08-16-2021, 02:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: D'Ante is way ahead of where we all thought he would be at this point. Zac even says so.

He is pushing for a starting spot already. Carman played solid. Like you said, only Vogel looked bad. Pretty awesome to say this.

Didn't expect this this early against the defending Champs who have one of the best DL's in all of football. 

Said before the game that it would be a miracle if we didn't struggle against these guys. A miracle happened.

Maybe Pollack is a miracle worker after all lol

We need to keep in mind just how bad Turner was - he was likely the worst line coach / teacher and schemer in the entire NFL. To go from him to a coach like Pollack who is actually respected and has a track record of success is a BIG jump. As was noted it is a work in progress but even just getting their footwork in better shape has improved things a lot. 

(08-16-2021, 03:00 PM)Joelist Wrote: We need to keep in mind just how bad Turner was - he was likely the worst line coach / teacher and schemer in the entire NFL. To go from him to a coach like Pollack who is actually respected and has a track record of success is a BIG jump. As was noted it is a work in progress but even just getting their footwork in better shape has improved things a lot. 

Yeah, night and day difference between Turner and Pollack.

Love how Pollack was working out Sewell at his Pro Day and it was specifically Pollack out of all the OL coaches.

Pollack does his homework and makes an impression on everyone he works with in a good way.

You usually don't hear the QB mentioning the OL coach, but Burrow has multiple times on how much of a change it is.

(08-16-2021, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, night and day difference between Turner and Pollack.

Love how Pollack was working out Sewell at his Pro Day and it was specifically Pollack out of all the OL coaches.

Pollack does his homework and makes an impression on everyone he works with in a good way.

You usually don't hear the QB mentioning the OL coach, but Burrow has multiple times on how much of a change it is.

The real question is why he was even hired here in the first place with his track record never mind staying for 2 seasons?

Getting back to Carman, I saw where Callahan stated his main problem is consistency. He does things you expect a rookie to do, then flashes great play. He needs to be consistent. That, I think, will come quickly.

(08-16-2021, 04:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Getting back to Carman, I saw where Callahan stated his main problem is consistency. He does things you expect a rookie to do, then flashes great play. He needs to be consistent. That, I think, will come quickly.

I hope so. With how Smith looked as well, that could be very good, very young pieces for the OLine moving forward.

(08-16-2021, 03:00 PM)Joelist Wrote: We need to keep in mind just how bad Turner was - he was likely the worst line coach / teacher and schemer in the entire NFL. To go from him to a coach like Pollack who is actually respected and has a track record of success is a BIG jump. As was noted it is a work in progress but even just getting their footwork in better shape has improved things a lot. 

  
Add Fred Johnson to the list of linemen singing Pollack's praises

Fred Johnson says even in his limited reps last week he can already tell the difference in his pass pro thanks to Frank Pollack's techniques.

"Feel like I’m at least 40-50 percent better football player than I was last year."

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) August 16, 2021

 

(08-16-2021, 03:56 PM)GodFather Wrote: The real question is why he was even hired here in the first place with his track record never mind staying for 2 seasons?

Pollack was retained after other coaches were let go, but then ZT must have requested his own OL coach.  Management likely told Frank that ZT wants his own guy, maybe due to his friendship or coaching scheme. Frank then probably left on his own accord.

He must be a hell of a guy to come back after the wheels had fallen off for the last 2 years and Turner had likely destroyed much of progress he made with the OL.  The players probably begged him to come back.  

(08-16-2021, 04:31 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Pollack was retained after other coaches were let go, but then ZT must have requested his own OL coach.  Management likely told Frank that ZT wants his own guy, maybe due to his friendship or coaching scheme.  Frank then probably left on his own accord.

He must be a hell of a guy to come back after the wheels had fallen off for the last 2 years and Turner had likely destroyed much of progress he made with the OL.  The players probably begged him to come back.  

Pollack left before Taylor got here. He wanted to go to New York.

(08-16-2021, 04:31 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Pollack was retained after other coaches were let go, but then ZT must have requested his own OL coach.  Management likely told Frank that ZT wants his own guy, maybe due to his friendship or coaching scheme. Frank then probably left on his own accord.

He must be a hell of a guy to come back after the wheels had fallen off for the last 2 years and Turner had likely destroyed much of progress he made with the OL.  The players probably begged him to come back.  

Pollack left in January, Zac was hired after the SB and interviewed a week or two before the SB.

His choice was Callahan, but Washington blocked the move, thus the only person (in his mind, I guess) left available was Turner.

Let's not shit on Zac or management for this; it was a timing/other-team-being-pricks sitch and nothing more.

(08-16-2021, 06:29 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Pollack left in January, Zac was hired after the SB and interviewed a week or two before the SB.

His choice was Callahan, but Washington blocked the move, thus the only person (in his mind, I guess) left available was Turner.

Let's not shit on Zac or management for this; it was a timing/other-team-being-pricks sitch and nothing more.

It was for maybe the first season - Turner should have been fired at the latest by 2019 season game 9. 

(08-16-2021, 06:33 PM)Joelist Wrote: It was for maybe the first season - Turner should have been fired at the latest by 2019 season game 9. 

The problem is who are you going to get mid year to replace him. Just like with players, it's easy to say get rid of someone, it's a little harder to find someone better mid year.

(08-16-2021, 06:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The problem is who are you going to get mid year to replace him. Just like with players, it's easy to say get rid of someone, it's a little harder to find someone better mid year.

What about after the year?  Why was he brought back for a 2nd season?

(08-16-2021, 06:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What about after the year?  Why was he brought back for a 2nd season?

Not my decision, and not one I would have made. 

(08-16-2021, 06:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The problem is who are you going to get mid year to replace him. Just like with players, it's easy to say get rid of someone, it's a little harder to find someone better mid year.

Simple, you promote Ben Martin. Who knows if he’d have been “better” but it would be almost impossible to be any worse. And it would have removed a toxic person (who also happens to be terrible at his job) from the organization.

(08-16-2021, 06:29 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Let's not shit on Zac or management for this; it was a timing/other-team-being-pricks sitch and nothing more.

Ah, yes, the "let's not blame anyone approach."  That always seems to be favorite of some on here.  It's not like there were literally hundreds of potential options, or that he was retained for a 2nd year when timing wasn't at all an issue.

He was an absolutely terrible hire; he should have never been hired to begin with.  And keeping him a 2nd year is even worse.  Someone is to blame for that, if not mutiple people.  Taylor, Tobin, Brown, Blackburn, take your pick(s).

PS Other teams are pricks for blocking their coaches from moving on?  I'm guessing you were singing a different tune the time we blocked Vance Jospeh from moving on to become a DC (a promotion).  In fact, had I said we were being "pricks" I'm guessing you would have ripped me and applauded the team for keeping one of their better coaches. 

(08-16-2021, 06:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The problem is who are you going to get mid year to replace him. Just like with players, it's easy to say get rid of someone, it's a little harder to find someone better mid year.

They could have brought in a random fan from the stands and had better results. Turner was that bad and that toxic. I don't believe for a minute they could not have replaced him mid season had they actually made the effort. 

Turner should not have been hired and then should have been fired immediately after first year,

but then we probably would not have Pollack now though either happened.

(08-16-2021, 06:52 PM)Joelist Wrote: They could have brought in a random fan from the stands and had better results. 

I'm quite sure some random fans think that....

(08-16-2021, 06:33 PM)Joelist Wrote: It was for maybe the first season - Turner should have been fired at the latest by 2019 season game 9. 

Agreed; I'm merely talking about the actual hire.

More-than likely, they stuck with Turner to keep continuity, but we all know that was a MASSIVE mistake and we should've had someone new for last year.

Then again, if Pollack does super-well, this may have been a fortuitous move (keeping him a second year), in hindsight.