(08-21-2021, 06:33 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Burrow suffered a torn ACL and MCL along with damage to his PCL and meniscus along with other structural damage.  His also looked worse 


https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-north/cincinnati-bengals/joe-burrows-teammate-shares-honest-admission-on-knee 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/11/23/report-mri-shows-joe-burrows-knee-injury-is-even-worse-than-believed/ 



They were probably about the same all things considered.  

I don't think they were about the same, but for the sake of argument, let's say they were. Palmer still suffered his injury 2 months later, and surgery was more primitive 15 years ago.

(08-21-2021, 07:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think they were about the same, but for the sake of argument, let's say they were. Palmer still suffered his injury 2 months later, and surgery was more primitive 15 years ago.

And people are all different in their healing times. It is what it is. 

(08-21-2021, 07:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think they were about the same, but for the sake of argument, let's say they were. Palmer still suffered his injury 2 months later, and surgery was more primitive 15 years ago.

Where did you go to med school again to decipher which one was worse?

(08-21-2021, 07:04 PM)wanga Wrote: And people are all different in their healing times. It is what it is. 

If you want to label Joe as a slow healer, fine. All I know if that CP's injury is our best reference for how long it should take to come back.

(08-21-2021, 07:10 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Where did you go to med school again to decipher which one was worse?

Where did you go to med school again to decipher that they are both "about the same"?

(08-21-2021, 07:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If you want to label Joe as a slow healer, fine. All I know if that CP's injury is our best reference for how long it should take to come back.


Where did you go to med school again to decipher that they are both "about the same"?

So by your own logic, If Palmer's was worse, 2 months later and less sophisticated surgeries, it wasn't worse.  Because if the season started 2 months ago, Joe wouldn't be ready.  Case closed.  CheckMate 

Quitters heal slower than ballers, med school 101

(08-21-2021, 07:21 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: So by your own logic, If Palmer's was worse, 2 months later and less sophisticated surgeries, it wasn't worse.  Because if the season started 2 months ago, Joe wouldn't be ready.  Case closed.  CheckMate 

Um...what?

(08-21-2021, 07:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Um...what?

Maybe over your head, but the timeline of things proves Burrow's was worse.  

(08-21-2021, 07:27 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Maybe over your head, but the timeline of things proves Burrow's was worse.  

Right...

So because Burrow has taken 2+ months longer to come back, that alone proves that his injury was worse. Not that he's slower to heal, or CP rehabbed more vigorously, or that Mike Brown is holding Burrow back. Intriguing. Thanks for showing me the light.

(08-21-2021, 07:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Right...

So because Burrow has taken 2+ months longer to come back, that alone proves that his injury was worse. Not that he's slower to heal, or CP rehabbed more vigorously, or that Mike Brown is holding Burrow back. Intriguing. Thanks for showing me the light.

Yes, if you have common sense and know anything about Burrow's work ethic and read anything about how he attacked rehab.  But do continue to speculate

Carson Palmer's knee injury was no joke.  I'll never forget how bad it initially sounded, or reading the cover story SI did on his rehab process.  The fact that dude was back for the beginning of the season was nothing short of remarkable.  And Shake is totally right, it's even more impressive when you consider this was 15 years ago.

Fwiw, I dug up this story that was written shortly after he got hurt: https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2290239 and took the liberty of pulling some quotes...

Carson Palmer's knee injury was "devastating and potentially career-ending," involving numerous ligament tears, a shredded ligament, damaged cartilage and a dislocated kneecap, his surgeon said Thursday.

"It's not just like it was a torn ACL," Paulos said Thursday, in a phone interview from Houston. "It's a magnitude more difficult to recover from and repair. It can and has ended careers, without a doubt.

Paulos, an orthopedic surgeon who has worked with the U.S. Ski Team since 1983, replaced the anterior cruciate ligament, which runs through the middle of the knee and provides stability. He said the medial collateral ligament, which runs along the side of the knee, was damaged "real bad."

"On a scale of one to three, it was a four," he said. "It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged -- shredded is the better term."

The kneecap dislocated when Palmer was hit, damaging tissue around it. There was also some cartilage damage, he said.

(08-21-2021, 07:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Carson Palmer's knee injury was no joke.  I'll never forget how bad it initially sounded, or reading the cover story SI did on his rehab process.  The fact that dude was back for the beginning of the season was nothing short of remarkable.  And Shake is totally right, it's even more impressive when you consider this was 15 years ago.

Fwiw, I dug up this story that was written shortly after he got hurt: https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2290239 and took the liberty of pulling some quotes...

Carson Palmer's knee injury was "devastating and potentially career-ending," involving numerous ligament tears, a shredded ligament, damaged cartilage and a dislocated kneecap, his surgeon said Thursday.

"It's not just like it was a torn ACL," Paulos said Thursday, in a phone interview from Houston. "It's a magnitude more difficult to recover from and repair. It can and has ended careers, without a doubt.

Paulos, an orthopedic surgeon who has worked with the U.S. Ski Team since 1983, replaced the anterior cruciate ligament, which runs through the middle of the knee and provides stability. He said the medial collateral ligament, which runs along the side of the knee, was damaged "real bad."

"On a scale of one to three, it was a four," he said. "It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged -- shredded is the better term."

The kneecap dislocated when Palmer was hit, damaging tissue around it. There was also some cartilage damage, he said.

I don't think anyone thinks Carson's injury wasn't serious or gruesome.  My point is I don't think it was worse than Joe's and if anything they are on the same level with my initial perception of both was Joe's was worse. 

(08-21-2021, 07:43 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Yes, if you have common sense and know anything about Burrow's work ethic and read anything about how he attacked rehab.  But do continue to speculate

I don't doubt his work ethic so much as I know CP's rehab that offseason was stuff of legend. He made the cover of Sports Illustrated for his grueling rehab process. Tbh, I ultimately feel like it's more Mike Brown keeping Joe off the field than anything.

I'm just speculating, because message board.

(08-21-2021, 07:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Carson Palmer's knee injury was no joke.  I'll never forget how bad it initially sounded, or reading the cover story SI did on his rehab process.  The fact that dude was back for the beginning of the season was nothing short of remarkable.  And Shake is totally right, it's even more impressive when you consider this was 15 years ago.

Fwiw, I dug up this story that was written shortly after he got hurt: https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2290239 and took the liberty of pulling some quotes...

Carson Palmer's knee injury was "devastating and potentially career-ending," involving numerous ligament tears, a shredded ligament, damaged cartilage and a dislocated kneecap, his surgeon said Thursday.

"It's not just like it was a torn ACL," Paulos said Thursday, in a phone interview from Houston. "It's a magnitude more difficult to recover from and repair. It can and has ended careers, without a doubt.

Paulos, an orthopedic surgeon who has worked with the U.S. Ski Team since 1983, replaced the anterior cruciate ligament, which runs through the middle of the knee and provides stability. He said the medial collateral ligament, which runs along the side of the knee, was damaged "real bad."

"On a scale of one to three, it was a four," he said. "It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged -- shredded is the better term."

The kneecap dislocated when Palmer was hit, damaging tissue around it. There was also some cartilage damage, he said.

I debated a lot of people on what Carson's legacy should be, or how truly "great" he was as a player, but one thing I give him props for is the rehab from that injury. He threw himself into that 110% and I was amazed that he was back without missing a beat one year later.

...and I hate to be a stickler dik, but I definitely think CP's injury was a bit worse. That's not to say Joe's wasn't a huge injury as well.

We need to have an independent panel of doctors do a comparison of both injuries, this seems to be getting into a serious debate.

(08-21-2021, 07:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Carson Palmer's knee injury was no joke.  I'll never forget how bad it initially sounded, or reading the cover story SI did on his rehab process.  The fact that dude was back for the beginning of the season was nothing short of remarkable.  And Shake is totally right, it's even more impressive when you consider this was 15 years ago.

Fwiw, I dug up this story that was written shortly after he got hurt: https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2290239 and took the liberty of pulling some quotes...

Carson Palmer's knee injury was "devastating and potentially career-ending," involving numerous ligament tears, a shredded ligament, damaged cartilage and a dislocated kneecap, his surgeon said Thursday.

"It's not just like it was a torn ACL," Paulos said Thursday, in a phone interview from Houston. "It's a magnitude more difficult to recover from and repair. It can and has ended careers, without a doubt.

Paulos, an orthopedic surgeon who has worked with the U.S. Ski Team since 1983, replaced the anterior cruciate ligament, which runs through the middle of the knee and provides stability. He said the medial collateral ligament, which runs along the side of the knee, was damaged "real bad."

"On a scale of one to three, it was a four," he said. "It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged -- shredded is the better term."

The kneecap dislocated when Palmer was hit, damaging tissue around it. There was also some cartilage damage, he said.

I still hate that scumbag Kimo van *********... He tried to end Palmer..

(08-21-2021, 08:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't doubt his work ethic so much as I know CP's rehab that offseason was stuff of legend. He made the cover of Sports Illustrated for his grueling rehab process. Tbh, I ultimately feel like it's more Mike Brown keeping Joe off the field than anything.

I'm just speculating, because message board.


I debated a lot of people on what Carson's legacy should be, or how truly "great" he was as a player, but one thing I give him props for is the rehab from that injury. He threw himself into that 110% and I was amazed that he was back without missing a beat one year later.

...and I hate to be a stickler dik, but I definitely think CP's injury was a bit worse. That's not to say Joe's wasn't a huge injury as well.

As was Joe's. Joe had a worse injury or at least the same. And Joe is going to be a better qb than Carson and take us places Carson the quitter never could. Carson wasn't running offensive meetings his second year. No idea why you're bringing up that quitter now but eff him. Who cares about him anymore. Joe is the truth. Carson was a talented QB, maybe more talented than Joe but not a culture changer. Joe is. 

(08-22-2021, 01:52 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: As was Joe's. Joe had a worse injury or at least the same. And Joe is going to be a better qb than Carson and take us places Carson the quitter never could. Carson wasn't running offensive meetings his second year. No idea why you're bringing up that quitter now but eff him. Who cares about him anymore. Joe is the truth. Carson was a talented QB, maybe more talented than Joe but not a culture changer. Joe is. 

I remember folks telling me about how Burrow was going to have to “pay his dues” or wtv but I tried to tell them this dude was just different. That the locker room would instantly get behind him. He’s just a natural leader. It was evident when they made him a captain as a rookie, and him running offensive meetings as just a second year player speaks volumes about Joe. Like this article says, that’s stuff the vets like Brady and Rodgers do.

https://deathvalleyvoice.com/2021/08/20/joe-burrow-lsu-football-news-cincinnati-bengals/

Btw, does anyone else read this…

The coaching staff has been letting Burrow run some of the offensive meetings with skill players. “So it’s ‘Hey Ja’Marr, I don’t see this, I don’t like the way you ran that, I need you to run it at this depth and this angle so I know exactly when you’re going to come out.’ So him having those conversations of what he expects is far more powerful than any conversation I’m going to have in front of them,” Callahan said. “The more ownership we can give Joe the better. “

And wonder this (about Callahan)…




As for you and Shake’s debate on Palmer vs Burrow, I won’t weigh in on which guy had the worse injury, or worked harder to get back, because I think they both deserve all the credit in the world. I will say you are right that Palmer was more talented (it’s really not even that close), but Burrow is just…different. It’s not the size or the big arm with him. It’s the intangibles.

I thought we heard he's out all pre-season? Are we holding out hope he plays one drive? He's got some mental issues right now, reportedly.

(08-22-2021, 08:35 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I remember folks telling me about how Burrow was going to have to “pay his dues” or wtv but I tried to tell them this dude was just different. That the locker room would instantly get behind him. He’s just a natural leader. It was evident when they made him a captain as a rookie, and him running offensive meetings as just a second year player speaks volumes about Joe. Like this article says, that’s stuff the vets like Brady and Rodgers do.

https://deathvalleyvoice.com/2021/08/20/joe-burrow-lsu-football-news-cincinnati-bengals/

Btw, does anyone else read this…

The coaching staff has been letting Burrow run some of the offensive meetings with skill players. “So it’s ‘Hey Ja’Marr, I don’t see this, I don’t like the way you ran that, I need you to run it at this depth and this angle so I know exactly when you’re going to come out.’ So him having those conversations of what he expects is far more powerful than any conversation I’m going to have in front of them,” Callahan said. “The more ownership we can give Joe the better. “

And wonder this (about Callahan)…




As for you and Shake’s debate on Palmer vs Burrow, I won’t weigh in on which guy had the worse injury, or worked harder to get back, because I think they both deserve all the credit in the world. I will say you are right that Palmer was more talented (it’s really not even that close), but Burrow is just…different. It’s not the size or the big arm with him. It’s the intangibles.

When Burrow joined, it was over video call only, they said he knew the playbook in a very short time and they were trying to figure out ways to challenge him. This immediately reminded me of Lebron James. Burrow is the coach, I have a feeling some on our coaching staff are not as smart as him lol.

(08-22-2021, 01:52 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: As was Joe's. Joe had a worse injury or at least the same. And Joe is going to be a better qb than Carson and take us places Carson the quitter never could. Carson wasn't running offensive meetings his second year. No idea why you're bringing up that quitter now but eff him. Who cares about him anymore. Joe is the truth. Carson was a talented QB, maybe more talented than Joe but not a culture changer. Joe is. 

Not a culture changer? They made the playoffs for the first time in . . . over a decade? And he literally told the owner I need you to do more to win. If telling the boss he needs to get his ass in gear and do a better job isn’t culture change then what is?