(08-22-2021, 05:01 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Not a culture changer? They made the playoffs for the first time in . . . over a decade? And he literally told the owner I need you to do more to win. If telling the boss he needs to get his ass in gear and do a better job isn’t culture change then what is?

I’d say the most credit has to go to Marvin. He had already changed the culture by the time Carson was a starter. But Carson and Chad definitely put us back on the map.

(08-22-2021, 05:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d say the most credit has to go to Marvin. He had already changed the culture by the time Carson was a starter. But Carson and Chad definitely put us back on the map.

Marvin definitely deserves credit. But, he didn’t have the balls to stand up to Mike. When the rubber met the road he folded like a cheap Walmart lawn chair on clearance.

(08-22-2021, 05:01 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Not a culture changer? They made the playoffs for the first time in . . . over a decade?  And he literally told the owner I need you to do more to win. If telling the boss he needs to get his ass in gear and do a better job isn’t culture change then what is?

Very talented. Not a culture changer. Infact I recall he wanted kitna around so kitna would relay his messages to the coaches.  Ha. Meanwhile Joe is running offensive meetings in year 2. 

(08-22-2021, 05:50 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Very talented. Not a culture changer. Infact I recall he wanted kitna around so kitna would relay his messages to the coaches.  Ha. Meanwhile Joe is running offensive meetings in year 2. 

I don’t recall that and I am not seeing that in a Google search. I’d be interested to read where you saw that.

(08-22-2021, 05:53 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don’t recall that and I am not seeing that in a Google search. I’d be interested to read where you saw that.

Just remember it being talked about when Jon left. 

Oof the idea that the Bengals haven't had a culture changing QB since 1990 is a pretty brutal take.

Stuff like this is why message boards are fun though.  It's way too early to get down on Chase, but we already know Burrow is the best QB we've had in 30-53 years. Fandom is a hoot.  

(08-22-2021, 06:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Oof the idea that the Bengals haven't had a culture changing QB since 1990 is a pretty brutal take.

Stuff like this is why message boards are fun though.  It's way too early to get down on Chase, but we already know Burrow is the best QB we've had in 30-53 years. Fandom is a hoot.  

It’s interesting, isn’t it? I was having a discussion with a fellow Bengals fan on Reddit the other day and they were acting like there was no plausible argument that Kyler Murray is a better QB than Joe Burrow at this very moment.

Murray, who had over 4,700 total yards and 37 total TDs last season. I love Burrow as much as anyone else but there are some who have developed these views on him that simply aren’t based in reality.

(08-22-2021, 06:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It’s interesting, isn’t it? I was having a discussion with a fellow Bengals fan on Reddit the other day and they were acting like there was no plausible argument that Kyler Murray is a better QB than Joe Burrow at this very moment.

Murray, who had over 4,700 total yards and 37 total TDs last season. I love Burrow as much as anyone else but there are some who have developed these views on him that simply aren’t based in reality.

As Bengals fans need to always be anchored in reality — and the reality is Joe Burrow won two games last year. Right now the aforementioned Kyler Murray is light years better than Joe Burrow and that’s the truth. A lot of other NFL quarterbacks are better than Joe Burrow but this is as of 22 August 2021. Will Joe get better? Yes. Will he get back to his dominant college form in the NFL? Probably not.

Much is out of Joe’s control — and that’s reality too. Joe cannot block for himself nor can he do anything to help runners find holes. This is up to Frank Pollack. Play calling is up to Zac Taylor so Joe is constrained there as well and if Zac abandons the run the Bengals will be in a world of hurt again. Not even Joe Burrow can run a successful one dimensional offense. Nobody can.

(08-22-2021, 06:51 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: As Bengals fans need to always be anchored in reality — and the reality is Joe Burrow won two games last year.  Right now the aforementioned Kyler Murray is light years better than Joe Burrow and that’s the truth.  A lot of other NFL quarterbacks are better than Joe Burrow but this is as of 22 August 2021.  Will Joe get better?  Yes.  Will he get back to his dominant college form in the NFL?  Probably not.  

Much is out of Joe’s control — and that’s reality too.  Joe cannot block for himself nor can he do anything to help runners find holes.  This is up to Frank Pollack.  Play calling is up to Zac Taylor so Joe is constrained there as well and if Zac abandons the run the Bengals will be in a world of hurt again.  Not even Joe Burrow can run a successful one dimensional offense.  Nobody can.

While Joey may have only won two games last year, he spent most of his season running for his life. I can't wait to see him behind a line that can all of a sudden pass block.

(08-22-2021, 06:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It’s interesting, isn’t it? I was having a discussion with a fellow Bengals fan on Reddit the other day and they were acting like there was no plausible argument that Kyler Murray is a better QB than Joe Burrow at this very moment.

that's the reddit fanbase for you

(08-22-2021, 07:39 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that's the reddit fanbase for you

You mean like this thread where the vast majority of reddit Bengals fans rank Burrow behind Herbert and Murray?

https://www.reddit.com/r/bengals/comments/p5gif7/what_outrage_is_this/

(08-22-2021, 07:28 PM)Sled21 Wrote: While Joey may have only won two games last year, he spent most of his season running for his life. I can't wait to see him behind a line that can all of a sudden pass block.

Same here and I agree with you totally...

...but the Bengals were sold a bill of goods last year with Joe Burrow which turned out to be false advertising.

We were assured Joe Burrow would “throw receivers open.” That didn’t happen.

We were told Joe Burrow would “elevate the play of those around him” simply by being present. That wasn’t true either.

We were promised Joe Burrow didn’t need an outstanding offensive line to succeed. Let’s talk to his orthopedic surgeon about that one.

We were led to believe Joe Burrow could pass his way to success and the Bengals didn’t need a run game. This was the biggest lie of all.

Do I believe Joe Burrow has unlimited potential? Yes. Will he realize this unlimited potential in Cincinnati? Probably not; definitely not with this coaching staff. Do I want Joe to be the best quarterback in Bengals’ history? Oh yes! Do I want Joe to lead the Bengals to the Super Bowl? Absolutely!

Joe Burrow has the potential to be counted among the all time greats in the game but potential doesn’t translate into wins. Performance does.

ok so criticizing Jamarr Chase and bad mouthing reddit. Got it

2 no no's

(08-22-2021, 07:52 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Same here and I agree with you totally...

...but the Bengals were sold a bill of goods last year with Joe Burrow which turned out to be false advertising.

We were assured Joe Burrow would “throw receivers open.”  That didn’t happen.

We were told Joe Burrow would “elevate the play of those around him” simply by being present.  That wasn’t true either.

We were promised Joe Burrow didn’t need an outstanding offensive line to succeed.  Let’s talk to his orthopedic surgeon about that one.

We were led to believe Joe Burrow could pass his way to success and the Bengals didn’t need a run game.  This was the biggest lie of all.

Do I believe Joe Burrow has unlimited potential?  Yes.  Will he realize this unlimited potential in Cincinnati?  Probably not; definitely not with this coaching staff.  Do I want Joe to be the best quarterback in Bengals’ history?  Oh yes!  Do I want Joe to lead the Bengals to the Super Bowl?  Absolutely!

Joe Burrow has the potential to be counted among the all time greats in the game but potential doesn’t translate into wins.  Performance does.

What the hell are you talking about?

Did you really not see the pass to Boyd against the Titans?

And that's one right off the top of my head. 

(08-22-2021, 08:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What the hell are you talking about?

Did you really not see the pass to Boyd against the Titans?

And that's one right off the top of my head. 

Yep. I was just about to highlight the same thing. Burrow dealt with some of the tightest windows in the league last year, but still managed to complete 65.3% of his passes. Just pull up any highlight reel, our WR’s often had guys draped all over them.

Anquan Boldin was also never a huge seperation guy. He'd use his body strength, strong hands, and route running ability.

Future hall of famer

(08-22-2021, 06:51 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: As Bengals fans need to always be anchored in reality — and the reality is Joe Burrow won two games last year.  Right now the aforementioned Kyler Murray is light years better than Joe Burrow and that’s the truth.  A lot of other NFL quarterbacks are better than Joe Burrow but this is as of 22 August 2021.  Will Joe get better?  Yes.  Will he get back to his dominant college form in the NFL?  Probably not.  

Much is out of Joe’s control — and that’s reality too.  Joe cannot block for himself nor can he do anything to help runners find holes.  This is up to Frank Pollack.  Play calling is up to Zac Taylor so Joe is constrained there as well and if Zac abandons the run the Bengals will be in a world of hurt again.  Not even Joe Burrow can run a successful one dimensional offense.  Nobody can.

Light years? Or one spot on the pff qb ranking https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-ahead-of-the-2021-nfl-season

(08-22-2021, 07:52 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Same here and I agree with you totally...

...but the Bengals were sold a bill of goods last year with Joe Burrow which turned out to be false advertising.

We were assured Joe Burrow would “throw receivers open.”  That didn’t happen.

We were told Joe Burrow would “elevate the play of those around him” simply by being present.  That wasn’t true either.

We were promised Joe Burrow didn’t need an outstanding offensive line to succeed.  Let’s talk to his orthopedic surgeon about that one.

We were led to believe Joe Burrow could pass his way to success and the Bengals didn’t need a run game.  This was the biggest lie of all.

Do I believe Joe Burrow has unlimited potential?  Yes.  Will he realize this unlimited potential in Cincinnati?  Probably not; definitely not with this coaching staff.  Do I want Joe to be the best quarterback in Bengals’ history?  Oh yes!  Do I want Joe to lead the Bengals to the Super Bowl?  Absolutely!

Joe Burrow has the potential to be counted among the all time greats in the game but potential doesn’t translate into wins.  Performance does.

He may not of thrown people open who couldn't get separation, but he completed a lot of balls in tight coverage. 

He absolutely elevated the play of those around him. We saw the team without him 

A good or adequate online would have made a huge difference last year, not sure an outstanding one is needed and it seems like the unit is headed in the right direction. They just handled the best dline in the game and even the 2nd unit against the wft ones didn't give up a sack. 

A lot of experts really liked what they saw from Joe last year and are all buying his stock but it wasn't convincing enough for you? Oh ok 

(08-22-2021, 08:13 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Anquan Boldin was also never a huge seperation guy. He'd use his body strength, strong hands, and route running ability.

Future hall of famer

Separation is the most overused and inconsequential term/metric used for WRs. 

(08-22-2021, 08:22 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: He may not of thrown people open who couldn't get separation, but he completed a lot of balls in tight coverage. 

He absolutely elevated the play of those around him. We saw the team without him 

A good or adequate online would have made a huge difference last year, not sure an outstanding one is needed and it seems like the unit is headed in the right direction. They just handled the best dline in the game and even the 2nd unit against the wft ones didn't give up a sack. 

A lot of experts really liked what they saw from Joe last year and are all buying his stock but it wasn't convincing enough for you? Oh ok 

"Throwing a wr open" is exactly that, putting the ball in a tight space where the defender can't make a play. He does that on a regular basis.