(09-03-2021, 09:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches see a hundred times more reps in practice than in preseason games.

Still have to perform in games.  It's not like he's been good or even average when he has played in this league.  Consistently gets burned. They treating him like a vet that has had a great history or something.  

(09-02-2021, 07:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've already provided the statistics on his blocking vs route snaps.

Sample had 868 offensive snaps.
He stayed in to block on 435 snaps (50.1%).
He ran a route on 433 snaps (49.9%).

He blocked on less snaps than Gronk, Jonnu Smith, and Higbee, and same as Darren Waller.

Sample ran the 15th most receiving route snaps out of all TEs.

He ran more route snaps than:
Mark Andrews (701 yards, 7 TDs on 429 route snaps)
Jimmy Graham (456 yards, 8 TDs on 415 route snaps)
Tyler Higbee (521 yards, 5 TDs on 367 route snaps)

Waller had just 124 more route snaps than Sample (28% more) but produced 1196-9 compared to Sample's 349-1 stat line. That's 342% of what Sample produced on yardage on just 28% more snaps.

So once again, I'll reiterate he's not doing enough in the passing game for my liking.
I want a TE who is a good receiver.
I get you want to defend his blocking, but I want to see a more prolific pass catcher.

Maybe Sample gets there this year if/when the OL is better, but I haven't seen enough from him the past two seasons to make me think he's going to be a Top 10 TE if he just gets used more/different in the passing game.

Seems odd that it is only block or route.  I remember him burning the Browns several times where he would stay in to block, but then leak out as a screen.  

Regardless, the mere fact that he ran routes doesn't mean that the offense was featuring the TE.  He may have been the fourth option in many of those route snaps, and with last year's line, the QB rarely got that far.

It seems like you would prefer that he be targeted more than he was, which he doesn't really control, but I still believe he is a solid TE.  He blocks very well and he is a solid receiver.  We can debate if he should have been selected in Rd 2, but remember, this all came from someone saying he sucked.  He doesn't.  End of story.  

(09-03-2021, 09:39 AM)Amalone002 Wrote: Still have to perform in games.  It's not like he's been good or even average when he has played in this league.  Consistently gets burned. They treating him like a vet that has had a great history or something.  

I don't know what point you are trying to make.  I don't see any really good CB with proven success in the NFL who should be starting instead of Apple.

(09-03-2021, 09:39 AM)Amalone002 Wrote: Still have to perform in games.  It's not like he's been good or even average when he has played in this league.  Consistently gets burned. They treating him like a vet that has had a great history or something.  

Would you rather have Antonio Phillips or Tony Brown?

Exactly.

(09-03-2021, 09:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know what point you are trying to make.  I don't see any really good CB with proven success in the NFL who should be starting instead of Apple.

Well part of the problem is I feel he is trash to put it nicely and should not have been signed, but they signed him instead of signing or drafting someone else so ok...let's see what he's got in the preseason. Then nothing. Wins a spot on the bench. I know many here are Ohio state fans and probably like him but he shouldn't be given the job. And that's not just with apple that's anyone. 

(09-03-2021, 10:18 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Would you rather have Antonio Phillips or Tony Brown?

Exactly.

At least they played. Didn't play well but who knows Apple may have performed worse if he played. 
Winning by default is not good.

(09-03-2021, 10:21 AM)Amalone002 Wrote: At least they played. Didn't play well but who knows Apple may have performed worse if he played. 
Winning by default is not good.

If Apple had missed all the practices with injury or something like that then you would have a point.  But it is not "default" when the coaches evaluate the players on hundreds of reps in practice.

BTW I am not a big fan of Apple. But I am not a big fan of the guys he is competing with either.  I would not say that any of them should be "given" a starting spot, and they haven't.  They have been competing all through training camp.

(09-03-2021, 11:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If Apple had missed all the practices with injury or something like that then you would have a point.  But it is not "default" when the coaches evaluate the players on hundreds of reps in practice.

BTW I am not a big fan of Apple. But I am not a big fan of the guys he is competing with either.  I would not say that any of them should be "given" a starting spot, and they haven't.  They have been competing all through training camp.

Interesting.  Agree to disagree there.

(09-03-2021, 11:30 AM)Amalone002 Wrote: Interesting.  Agree to disagree there.

Which point are you disagreeing with and why?  You don't think Apple participated in training camp for the coaches to evaluate him?

Again, I am not really excited about Apple, but I have seen his competition and I am not shocked that the coaches think he should start.

(09-03-2021, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Which point are you disagreeing with and why?  You don't think Apple participated in training camp for the coaches to evaluate him?

Again, I am not really excited about Apple, but I have seen his competition and I am not shocked that the coaches think he should start.

Camp and game is different.  Just feel Apple should of been evaluated in preseason to show he truly is better than the others. Although I don't think he could be any worse but still should of been able to see. 

I'm curious why they wouldn't start Darius Phillips. Did I miss something? Was he cut?

Apple and Allen.

I agree with Amalone002. There is plenty bad tape out on Apple. To think our only other options would be Phillips or Tony Brown as another poster stated is just lazy scouting.

Not that the poster is a lazy scout, but you'd hope our scouting wouldn't feel so limited. I think think they found a gem in the Buffalo undrafted corner, and maybe we'll see him take some snaps.

I don't trust Lou first B.W Webb (I think that was his name) and last year it was........The titan cb we had (38). Both of those corners stunk. So these favorites/reclamation projects of Lou's don't tend to work out well.

(09-03-2021, 11:46 AM)Mer Wrote: I'm curious why they wouldn't start Darius Phillips. Did I miss something? Was he cut?

Bum knee and saving him as the punt returner. 

(09-03-2021, 11:48 AM)jj22 Wrote: Bum knee and saving him as the punt returner. 

I wasn't aware of that.

(09-03-2021, 11:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: Apple and Allen.

I agree with Amalone002. There is plenty bad tape out on Apple. To think our only other options would be Phillips or Tony Brown as another poster stated is just lazy scouting.

Not that the poster is a lazy scout, but you'd hope our scouting wouldn't feel so limited. I think think they found a gem in the Buffalo undrafted corner, and maybe we'll see him take some snaps.

I don't trust Lou first B.W Webb (I think that was his name) and last year it was........The titan cb we had (38). Both of those corners stunk. So these favorites/reclamation projects of Lou's don't tend to work out well.

I'm fine with Ricardo Allen at least he's a veteran that has been respectable in this league and been pretty good. Apple has failed everywhere and their is a reason he's on team to team every year or so. 

Again I understand the players behind him have been terrible but still should be able to see Apple and see who is the least terrible lol

Ok, maybe he is a lazy scout. Doesn't look like he liked me saying he wasn't. My apologies.

His struggles were even highlighted in the Mike Hilton Mic'd up as being mocked in the wide receiver room. So posters who question why he was guaranteed a spot without even seeing any action in preseason games is legit.

(09-03-2021, 11:59 AM)Amalone002 Wrote:  but still should be able to see Apple and see who is the least terrible lol

Again I don't understand where you are getting the idea that Apple was never on the field during training camp.

(09-03-2021, 12:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: His struggles were even highlighted in the Mike Hilton Mic'd up as being mocked in the wide receiver room. 

I watched the video and I did not see or hear that.

Pleas give me the quote or time.

(09-03-2021, 12:04 PM)jj22 Wrote:  So posters who question why he was guaranteed a spot without even seeing any action in preseason games is legit.

No it is not legit.  Performance in preseason games do not determine who starts.

Are you also calling for Patrick to start over Mixon since he had better preseason numbers?