Okay I decided to edit this thread because I think it was a bit much before. I just wanted to post some pros and cons of the coaching staff and which pros and cons might affect us this year. Then see what other people think are some pros and cons.

Pros:
Game/clock management
Playing rookies
Drafts
Free agency
Players belief in the staff

Cons: 
Game/season adjustments
Neglected the oline
Drafts
Wins or lack there of

I think free agency is the one of the positive areas of this coaching staff that will really pay off this year. We seam to have really built a defensive unit that looks the part we will see if that is truly the case.

Unfortunately I think for this year to turn out good Zac and Co. are really going to have to turn some of the negatives of they're tenure into positves. Game/season adjustment is most certainly going to have to be better. We are going to find out week 1 how we pass pro and how we run the ball. We need to attack these areas urgently and adjust our playcalling if need be to protect Burrow and/or find ways to get Mixon the ball in space.

As I said in the other thread the depth of this Oline is extremely concerning. We can't afford one injury let alone multiple and almost the entire unit has had recent injury history/issues. Our Oline and Defense have been terrible and we've completely rebuilt the defense while putting in minimal work on the oline. We traded away Price (which I get for multiple reasons) for more Dline help but leaving us even more thin on depth. 

I really think wins and losses aren't going to be what decides if Zac's time here is done as I think our ceiling for the season is 9 wins and it only takes a rough start to turn that into 5 wins. But if they fail to adjust or if injuries start to stack up and the Oline gets exposed he needs to go.

PROS
not Marvin

Cons
not good

(09-05-2021, 01:38 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay I decided to edit this thread because I think it was a bit much before. I just wanted to post some pros and cons of the coaching staff and which pros and cons might affect us this year. Then see what other people think are some pros and cons.

Pros:
Game/clock management
Playing rookies
Drafts
Free agency
Players belief in the staff

Cons: 
Game/season adjustments
Neglected the oline
Drafts
Wins or lack there of

I think free agency is the one of the positive areas of this coaching staff that will really pay off this year. We seam to have really built a defensive unit that looks the part we will see if that is truly the case.

Unfortunately I think for this year to turn out good Zac and Co. are really going to have to turn some of the negatives of they're tenure into positves. Game/season adjustment is most certainly going to have to be better. We are going to find out week 1 how we pass pro and how we run the ball. We need to attack these areas urgently and adjust our playcalling if need be to protect Burrow and/or find ways to get Mixon the ball in space.

As I said in the other thread the depth of this Oline is extremely concerning. We can't afford one injury let alone multiple and almost the entire unit has had recent injury history/issues. Our Oline and Defense have been terrible and we've completely rebuilt the defense while putting in minimal work on the oline. We traded away Price (which I get for multiple reasons) for more Dline help but leaving us even more thin on depth. 

I really think wins and losses aren't going to be what decides if Zac's time here is done as I think our ceiling for the season is 9 wins and it only takes a rough start to turn that into 5 wins. But if they fail to adjust or if injuries start to stack up and the Oline gets exposed he needs to go.

I think you’ve nailed it. Players like Zac and co and play hard for them. They need to make better adjustments, though. Talent has improved but I’m still not seeing it yet. I’m hopeful for week one to find signs that I’m wrong though.

(09-06-2021, 02:42 AM)Nately120 Wrote: PROS
not Marvin

Cons
not good

I'm not sure if "not Marvin" is a PRO anymore.

You've got drafts both as a Pro and Con..

The biggest weakness is lack of experience in the top 3 HC/OC/DC. We need an experienced OC that actually does the job

The biggest strength is getting rid of malcontents such as Dunlap and looking for players who are loyal to the program

(09-06-2021, 09:21 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I'm not sure if "not Marvin" is a PRO anymore. :cool:

Yeah. Draft is listed as both a pro and con. Not Marvin could work in both columns as well.

(09-06-2021, 09:35 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You've got drafts both as a Pro and Con..

The biggest weakness is lack of experience in the top 3 HC/OC/DC. We need an experienced OC that actually does the job

The biggest strength is getting rid of malcontents such as Dunlap and looking for players who are loyal to the program 

Yeah I put drafts in both columns. I really think they've done a really good job with the drafts. I've even started to like Sample. Maybe not in the 2nd but I think he can be a solid contributer to the offense and if he does then does it matter what rd you got him.

I just put it in the negative because this years draft is up in the air. After the Billy Price trade (which I understand) it really got me thinking about the depth of the line. Trey Hopkins coming back from an ACL I don't think we know how that's gonna go. Everyone and injury is different but I remember Geno coming back from his ACL it took him a year to be the same player he was before. 
So not getting into the whole OL vs WR debate I think them taking a gamble on the OL really puts the draft in a negative column no matter how it works out.

(09-06-2021, 10:27 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I put drafts in both columns. I really think they've done a really good job with the drafts. I've even started to like Sample. Maybe not in the 2nd but I think he can be a solid contributer to the offense and if he does then does it matter what rd you got him.

I just put it in the negative because this years draft is up in the air. After the Billy Price trade (which I understand) it really got me thinking about the depth of the line. Trey Hopkins coming back from an ACL I don't think we know how that's gonna go. Everyone and injury is different but I remember Geno coming back from his ACL it took him a year to be the same player he was before. 
So not getting into the whole OL vs WR debate I think them taking a gamble on the OL really puts the draft in a negative column no matter how it works out.

I truly think Hopkins will be ok. If needed they can spell him with the rookie so he won't have to play every snap. 

(09-06-2021, 10:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I truly think Hopkins will be ok. If needed they can spell him with the rookie so he won't have to play every snap. 

I really hope your right and I wasn't concerned at all until we traded Billy Price. Which again I get he was a guy that if everything goes right probably isn't playing and we would be letting him walk after this year and instead you get what looks to be a solid contributer this year and hopefully beyond. 

(09-06-2021, 11:27 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I really hope your right and I wasn't concerned at all until we traded Billy Price. Which again I get he was a guy that if everything goes right probably isn't playing and we would be letting him walk after this year and instead you get what looks to be a solid contributer this year and hopefully beyond. 

Yeah, I just consider the fact he has been taking all the 1st team reps in practice with Reader and Ogunjobi over top of him, and figure if he can handle that, he should be good to go.

(09-06-2021, 09:21 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I'm not sure if "not Marvin" is a PRO anymore.

Sadly, we have only had coaches that fit into two categories for the past 30 years:

1. Coaches who are Marvin
2. Coaches who are not good


Take yer pick. 

One of the cons that can be turned into
A pro is this year we are expecting 2-coordinators
To come into their own.
ZT and Anarumo have to start showing
Us.they can out scheme the coaches across
The field on a week to week basis.
ZT has lost.so many 1-possession games
That could be a reflection that when the heat is on
He just wilts

(09-06-2021, 12:54 PM)impactplaya Wrote: One of the cons that can be turned into
A pro is this year we are expecting 2-coordinators
To come into their own.
ZT and Anarumo have to start showing
Us.they can out scheme the coaches across
The field on a week to week basis.
ZT has lost.so many 1-possession games
That could be a reflection that when  the heat is on
He just wilts

That is a good con to pro and really something I had in mind this offseason when I started to get hyped for the season. I had been really low on the coaching staff but they have both shown some flashes and could've both been getting it figured out to this point winning isn't easy in the NFL. Hopefully they both take a dramatic step foward this year. 

The play calling hasn't been terrible with Taylor but I have wondered in the past why he's been so against allowing another OC to call plays. Just seems there is only a handful of coaches that pull that off the consistent success.

Not sure that you can say they "Neglected the Oline".

They jettisoned the poor RT and oline coach, brought in a well respected and solid oline coach and RT, then drafted several interior linemen.

You can disagree with the moves that were made and consider them incorrect, but you cannot say that they neglected the issue.

(09-06-2021, 01:58 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Not sure that you can say they "Neglected the Oline".

They jettisoned the poor RT and oline coach, brought in a well respected and solid oline coach and RT, then drafted several interior linemen.

You can disagree with the moves that were made and consider them incorrect, but you cannot say that they neglected the issue.

Okay yes maybe neglected is the wrong terminology. I do like Rieff and even the draft picks but they just haven't attacked that position group like any other one that was a weakness on the team. 

(09-06-2021, 01:58 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Not sure that you can say they "Neglected the Oline".

They jettisoned the poor RT and oline coach, brought in a well respected and solid oline coach and RT, then drafted several interior linemen.

You can disagree with the moves that were made and consider them incorrect, but you cannot say that they neglected the issue.

Said it before I could.

Pros: The coaching in the trenches
- Free Agency in addressing the trenches
- Youth growth, specifically Linebacker, expecting major strides from the young guys in their second year.
- Having healthy players who are not over the hill like Geno and AJ clearly were last year.
- Secondary looking very good
- Better players in the trenches should help us stop the run better and get after the QB on Defense.

Cons: Zac and Lou still being here, I would of at least moved on from Lou after last season.
- Coaching once injuries occur, we still don't know if these coaches can coach a next man up mentality here.
- Have to start winning close games, until this happens we don't know if it ever will.
- Depth on OL namely OT. Somebody like Jonah or Reiff goes down we could be in trouble.

(09-06-2021, 02:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Said it before I could.

Pros: The coaching in the trenches
- Free Agency in addressing the trenches
- Youth growth, specifically Linebacker, expecting major strides from the young guys in their second year.
- Having healthy players who are not over the hill like Geno and AJ clearly were last year.
- Secondary looking very good
- Better players in the trenches should help us stop the run better and get after the QB on Defense.

Cons: Zac and Lou still being here, I would of at least moved on from Lou after last season.
- Coaching once injuries occur, we still don't know if these coaches can coach a next man up mentality here.
- Have to start winning close games, until this happens we don't know if it ever will.
- Depth on OL namely OT. Somebody like Jonah or Reiff goes down we could be in trouble.

Yeah somebody brought it up in the past but with Taylor's record here so far I'm not sure you could find a solid replacement for Lou because who wants to come for what could very well be a one year stop. I did think it was ridiculous the whole Lou just needs his guys because they always say that stuff but maybe he can prove us all wrong.
I like BJ Hill or at least the potential he seems to have but it would've been interesting if we could've traded Price (only a center) to a team with depth in another area of the offensive line.

(09-06-2021, 02:52 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah somebody brought it up in the past but with Taylor's record here so far I'm not sure you could find a solid replacement for Lou because who wants to come for what could very well be a one year stop. I did think it was ridiculous the whole Lou just needs his guys because they always say that stuff but maybe he can prove us all wrong.
I like BJ Hill or at least the potential he seems to have but it would've been interesting if we could've traded Price (only a center) to a team with depth in another area of the offensive line.

I thought Wade Phillips would of been the perfect replacement for Lou as he was really wanting to get into coaching again 
and he would be more than a solid HC option in case Zac continued to suck. Think this would of been realistic by bringing 
in a vet DT with HC experience. But eh, didn't happen, just have to hope Zac and Lou get it together.

I also believe that Trey Hill's good play this Preseason and Hopkins must be looking good led to the Price/BJ Hill trade.

Really like BJ Hill, wanted us to draft him, reminds me of Geno a lot. 

We will see how our depth is on the OL, evidently Pollack likes our youngsters and D'Ante looked great when I watched 
him the Preseason and Carman got better every game and he can kick out to either OT position in a pinch.

(09-06-2021, 02:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I thought Wade Phillips would of been the perfect replacement for Lou as he was really wanting to get into coaching again 
and he would be more than a solid HC option in case Zac continued to suck. Think this would of been realistic by bringing 
in a vet DT with HC experience. But eh, didn't happen, just have to hope Zac and Lou get it together.

I also believe that Trey Hill's good play this Preseason and Hopkins must be looking good led to the Price/BJ Hill trade.

Really like BJ Hill, wanted us to draft him, reminds me of Geno a lot. 

We will see how our depth is on the OL, evidently Pollack likes our youngsters and D'Ante looked great when I watched 
him the Preseason and Carman got better every game and he can kick out to either OT position in a pinch.

You may be right and Wade Phillips would've been good. I was just going off the point the other poster said and the whole debacle of Taylor trying to find a DC when he first got hired.

Hopefully the Oline stays healthy and or the depth is good when called upon. I thought Trey Hill was getting good reports from camp but I know he got banged up in that last preseason game so hopefully that was a non issue.

I believe you are giving way too much credit to Taylor in the Pro's column.

Mike Brown and Family determine free agency spending, not the coaches. If you want to credit Taylor with the choices in free agency, then I'd like to point out that Waynes has yet to play in a game isn't as good as the guy they didn't pay, who was Willie Jackson.

Additionally, in free agency, do not forget the following deals signed since Taylor was hired: Bobby Hart 3 years, CB Webb 3 years, Miller 3 years, Preston Brown 3 years. All of which are long gone and were wasted millions. If you want to give Taylor credit for a good signing, like Reader, then you also have to hold him accountable for the horrible signings.

Drafting. It's hard to miss when you have the top pick in the draft, though many teams have. Still, Taylor had to suck horribly to bring that top pick to the team. That's something Marvin never did, bring the top pick by being the worst team.

Playing rookies. I'm not sure that this counts for anything at all. Marvin played rookies and even got the playoffs with a rookie QB and top WR. I think this one is more fake than reality.

Game and Clock Management. How do you know he's any good at these? Don't you have to win as a result? I mean if you are down 20 points with 3 minutes to go, what's the point of having 3 time outs?

Wins or lack there of. Well, since that's the whole point of even having a team to begin with you'd think this would be at the top of the list as to whether the guy should have his job or if he should be managing a carwash in Alaska during the winter.