A couple of years ago I came across a rating for O-linemen that combined "sacks allowed" and "holding calls". I realize a holding call does not cost the offense a down, but it makes a lot of sense to treat them the same a a sack because often the holding call just prevented a sack.

I'd take 1st and 20 over 2nd and 15 in a lot of situations, unless it takes you out of field goal range. The penalty stops the clock too, so there's that to consider. A hold isn't quite as bad as a sack, but it's pretty close. Penalties and sacks are both drive killers.

Do we have a split on the Viking holds? How many by who?

How many holding calls did the Vikings have? It felt like it was close to double digits. But I'd much rather have had 5 more holding calls then Burrow taking 5 sacks.

(09-14-2021, 07:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A couple of years ago I came across a rating for O-linemen that combined "sacks allowed" and "holding calls".  I realize a holding call does not cost the offense a down, but it makes a lot of sense to treat them the same a a sack because often the holding call just prevented a sack.

That 10 yards can be a drive killer. Penalties should be a tracked stat

"Deserves to be a sack" got nothin' to do with it.
Will Munny

Seems like LT had 2, LG and RG and RT each had 1.

(09-14-2021, 09:31 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: "Deserves to be a sack" got nothin' to do with it.
                                                                           Will Munny

"I wish there was such a thing as double Rep."

-Fredtoast

I'm sure there are stats and numbers that know more than I do, but I'd take the sack over the holding call. A quick google search says the average loss on a sack has been a steady 6.5 yards or so since 1993, so I'll take 6.5 yards and a loss of down and the chance to cause a fumble and the demoralizing awesomeness of a sack over the extra 3.5 yards.

I also would ask what you'd rather see on a play:

A: Bengals called for a hold
B: Burrow getting sakced

I'd take A.

Obviously we prefer a sack, but the fact that the Vikings had to resort to holds to stop Hendrickson and Hubbard and Ogunjobi did definitely set their offense back.

I'd take the sack because it's a loss of down with the yardage loss. With our defense, the loss of down means so much more when we give up 3rd and 24s..

To be honest if they ever wanted to change the rules make a hold (a real hold not the usual marginal crap) on a passing play (defined as QB had ball in his hands when the hold occurred) be 5 yards and loss of down instead of 10 yards.

(09-15-2021, 12:28 AM)Joelist Wrote: To be honest if they ever wanted to change the rules make a hold (a real hold not the usual marginal crap) on a passing play (defined as QB had ball in his hands when the hold occurred) be 5 yards and loss of down instead of 10 yards.

It should be loss of down...

(09-15-2021, 12:30 AM)Tony Wrote: It should be loss of down...

Possibly. I would still say only if it is a pass play then add loss of down to the yardage. That removes the incentive for linemen to hold to give their offense another chance.  It is also consistent with what happens when holding is called in your own end zone - automatic safety.

(09-15-2021, 12:33 AM)Joelist Wrote: Possibly. I would still say only if it is a pass play then add loss of down to the yardage. That removes the incentive for linemen to hold to give their offense another chance.  It is also consistent with what happens when holding is called in your own end zone - automatic safety.

Maybe they could do like nba does.. If you get over 3 in a game where u go into penalty and then you lose the down..

(09-14-2021, 08:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: How many holding calls did the Vikings have? It felt like it was close to double digits. But I'd much rather have had 5 more holding calls then Burrow taking 5 sacks.

As I sit here smiling with my coffee... well what are they going to do? They had Hendrickson, Larry O/ BJ Hill, Reader/Topou and Hubbard breathing down their necks. You can't double everyone, and that's a killer line. Everyone is going to eat.

(09-14-2021, 07:48 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I'd take 1st and 20 over 2nd and 15 in a lot of situations, unless it takes you out of field goal range. The penalty stops the clock too, so there's that to consider. A hold isn't quite as bad as a sack, but it's pretty close. Penalties and sacks are both drive killers.

While i dont like Hold calls...     Id rather get a hold call than see someone get a free shot at the QB


Same with  DBs and pass interference...  IF they know they are beat a penalty is better than a TD.