(11-09-2015, 01:57 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Erin Winston is the NFLPA. Hardy needs out of the NFL and put under rehabilitation. They "rehabbed" M. Vick.

Talent = money in the NFL, and money is all they're about (like most people). Instead, they don't see the fans get super angry and don't care to see Hardy on the field ever again.

Ray Rice doesn't see the field again because of public stigma (his stats started to become pedestrian too, though). To give a 2-3 year ban for domestic violence issues would send a message that the fans would want to see, because the 4 game was nothing. The 10 game reduced to 4 games (with the help of our own Eric Winston), is not good in the public's eye.

Considering the length of careers, 2-3 years is a career killer.

What Hardy did, any of us would be in Jail for. IIRC Hardy got paid while he was on leave, to boot. He has mental issues, he needs help.

Eric Winston had nothing to do with the NFLPA helping to get Hardy's suspension reduced to 4 games.  The NFL had no right by their own rules to hit him with a 10-game suspension because his offense occurred before the NFL change its domestic abuse policy.

Truth be told, both the NFL and NFLPA would like to see this piece of dogshit removed from their league.

(11-09-2015, 03:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: There's a huge difference in taking a chance on a DWI/drug guy and some guy that beats the crap out of his girl.

You really run the risk of alienating the fans with the guy that beats his chick.

Agreed, but there is something I don't understand.  What Michael Vick did was heinous and something that would never even enter my mind.  That said, he did it to dogs... years after the offenses took place, and after he served time in prison, people organized protests outside stadiums where he was playing.  Where are the protests against the guys who beat the crap out of their wives and children?

Side note: I realized that I typed "chance" instead of "change" when starting the thread.  Does anyone know how to change it??

I never wanted the guy and really thought he'd get a longer suspension than he did. The team had enough cap room this past offseason to sign a DE that didn't come at a discount because of character. MJ was the better choice by far.

Can you imagine the distraction it would be on the team if he was here? That kind of chemistry DOES make a difference and negates all the positive's that players talent can contribute. Im not even discussing what kind of message it brings when a team takes a guy like that and what he's done because of his talent.

No thanks..we've been there and it got us nowhere!

Nobody should do what Greg Hardy did, even if your old lady is absolute batshit crazy. Short of defending your actual life, that shouldnt ever happen. I dont think he should be in the NFL at all.

Edit: And I am one of the people who disagrees with a lot of the reasons Goodell has suspended people. Nobody is perfect and outside of the spotlight, these players have lives that should be private......except in this type of situation. There should be no way to play the game of football ever again professionally for this man. He deserves punishment majorly.

(11-09-2015, 04:42 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: A lot of people view their dogs as family members... like i do...    

I would probly protest vick if he were here...

What hardy did was bad and theres no excuse for that. but at least another human can make the choice to leave the situation.

I havent heard of any child beaters in the NFL   and while aP might have gone a little overboard.  ive been switched before and probly better for it.

A lot of people also view women as their family member... i.e. their sisters and daughters.  The woman in Hardy's case could not leave because she was being physically prevented from doing so.  Even battered women in general, I think there is much about domestic violence that you fail to understand.

Peterson was charged with felony child abuse, and actually plead to misdemeanor assault.  Personally, I think that is much more than going "a little overboard".

I didn't want Hardy, and I certainly don't now.

I have no respect for women beaters, pedophiles, or rapists.

I'm putting Hardy up there with those type of people, because he is that kind of person.

(11-09-2015, 04:49 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: A lot of people also view women as their family member... i.e. their sisters and daughters.  The woman in Hardy's case could not leave because she was being physically prevented from doing so.  Even battered women in general, I think there is much about domestic violence that you fail to understand.

Peterson was charged with felony child abuse, and actually plead to misdemeanor assault.  Personally, I think that is much more than going "a little overboard".

not saying women arent consider family members lol... Just that i view my dog on that level. There are very very few times i feel its acceptable to hit a woman. and thats generally if they are attacking you with a deadly weapon.

she was being physically prevented from leaving 24/7? everyday? i doubt that very much

cant say i understand it much ive never hit my wife or really ever felt the need. but cant understand why anyone stays in abusive relationship like this other than the money.

(11-09-2015, 05:16 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: not saying women arent consider family members lol...  Just that i view my dog on that level.      There are very very few times i feel its acceptable to hit a woman. and thats generally if they are attacking you with a deadly weapon.

she was being physically prevented from leaving 24/7? everyday? i doubt that very much

cant say i understand it much ive never hit my wife or really ever felt the need. but cant understand why anyone stays in abusive relationship like this other than the money.

Read the report.  On the night in question, she was prevented from leaving.  It's not just the money, although that can be part of it.  There are deep psychological issues at play... it is not as simple as "just get up and walk out".  It gets even more complicated when there are children involved.

I'm sick to death of the feminist-liberal Media Thought Police telling us how we're supposed to feel.

When Ced Benson beat the living shit out of his "roommate"....



...I don't recall any women's groups demanding Ced's release. (He was arrested for assault a second time, btw, and...nada. No fake outrage.) So violence is only a problem if the victim has a vagina? How is that not sexist and not hypocritical? 

Furthermore, you should read how Nicole Holder (the victim) screwed up the case...refused to go to court...couldn't be located...made contradicting statements (because she, too, was drunk at the time). Greg Hardy is no friend of mine, but he went through ALL the paces---court, arbitration, suspension---and it is what it is.

This gold-digger dated Nelly and rubbed Hardy's face in it while he was drunk, and he did what he does. You tell me she didn't know what type of man Greg Hardy was? I say that's an outright lie.

As long as Adam Jones is on this team, people look kinda silly talking about dude's like Hardy. In no way am I condoning what Hardy did, but there are guys on almost every team that have done some scummy things. I bet every one of you that are bashing Hardy have cheered Pacman on Sundays, and he's hit a woman (women?) and is partially responsible for making someone a paraplegic.

I wanted to rent Hardy on a 1 year "prove it" deal. Simply because Hardy is a great talent and Marv has a good track record with troubled players. Hindsight is 20/20, so I'm glad we passed. Being 8-0 I guess we didn't need him. Plus the picture thing could've been a distraction. Nobody knew these things would shake out this way, so I don't regret anything I said.

(11-09-2015, 03:55 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Where are the protests against the guys who beat the crap out of their wives and children?

Women are the primary abusers of children in households. Statistically, it isn't even close. In more than 70% of all cases, young boys are experiencing their first violence at the hands of women.

Where's THAT discussion during all this? We're so outraged...now? Ask these NFL players if their moms whooped their asses, struck them about the face, beat them with household implements. Don't be surprised when you hear the truth.

(11-09-2015, 06:10 PM)tigershrimp Wrote: Women are the primary abusers of children in households. Statistically, it isn't even close. In more than 70% of all cases, young boys are experiencing their first violence at the hands of women.

Do you consider all corporal punishment "abuse"?

(11-09-2015, 06:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you consider all corporal punishment "abuse"?

The DHHS data shows that of children abused by one parent, 70.6% were abused by their mothers, whereas only 29.4% were abused by their fathers.
And of children who died at the hands of one parent, 70.8% were killed by their mothers, whereas only 29.2% were killed by their fathers.


(These were reported abuse cases, not paddlings...)




To answer your question, no. I don't consider corporal punishment to be the same as abuse/neglect.

(11-09-2015, 05:42 PM)tigershrimp Wrote: I'm sick to death of the feminist-liberal Media Thought Police telling us how we're supposed to feel.

When Ced Benson beat the living shit out of his "roommate"....



...I don't recall any women's groups demanding Ced's release. (He was arrested for assault a second time, btw, and...nada. No fake outrage.) So violence is only a problem if the victim has a vagina? How is that not sexist and not hypocritical? 

Furthermore, you should read how Nicole Holder (the victim) screwed up the case...refused to go to court...couldn't be located...made contradicting statements (because she, too, was drunk at the time). Greg Hardy is no friend of mine, but he went through ALL the paces---court, arbitration, suspension---and it is what it is.

This gold-digger dated Nelly and rubbed Hardy's face in it while he was drunk, and he did what he does. You tell me she didn't know what type of man Greg Hardy was? I say that's an outright lie.

Are you seriously comparing a man beating up another man to a man beating up a woman?

And you think Hardy was justified in beating this woman because she made him jealous?  He "did what he does" and that makes her to blame?

Seriously?

Greg Hardy did go to court.........and the only time the evidence was presented to the court he was convicted.

(11-09-2015, 06:16 PM)tigershrimp Wrote: The DHHS data shows that of children abused by one parent, 70.6% were abused by their mothers, whereas only 29.4% were abused by their fathers.
And of children who died at the hands of one parent, 70.8% were killed by their mothers, whereas only 29.2% were killed by their fathers.


(These were reported abuse cases, not paddlings...)




To answer your question, no. I don't consider corporal punishment to be the same as abuse/neglect.

Link?

I have a feeling the numbers are cooked because of the quantifier "by one parent".  I'd like to see all the numbers to see if there is any bias here.

Only 8% of single parent homes are headed by a father.  Maybe they would be more likely to be accused of abuse if more of them were the primary caretaker.

(11-09-2015, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?

I have a feeling the numbers are cooked because of the quantifier "by one parent".  I'd like to see all the numbers to see if there is any bias here.

The "by one parent" quantifier is to weed out all the cases where children were killed by both parents.

It seems pretty cut and dried to me. In cases where it was one parent that killed their child, 70.8% of the time it was the woman who was responsible.

(11-09-2015, 06:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The "by one parent" quantifier is to weed out all the cases where children were killed by both parents.

It seems pretty cut and dried to me. In cases where it was one parent that killed their child, 70.8% of the time it was the woman who was responsible.

But what if only 10% of cases involved only one parent?  That would mean that in 93% of the cases a man was involved in the murder.

See how the numbers can be cooked?

But I am guessing that most of the explanation is that so few single parent families are headed by the father.  Obviously the primary caretker is going to be much more likely to be accused of abuse.

(11-09-2015, 06:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But what if only 10% of cases involved only one parent?  That would mean that in 93% of the cases a man was involved in the murder.

See how the numbers can be cooked?

But I am guessing that most of the explanation is that so few single parent families are headed by the father.  Obviously the primary caretker is going to be much more likely to be accused of abuse.

That figure doesn't seem likely, at all. 

I agree that more single mothers than single fathers could inflate the numbers towards women.

That said, most women have a guy around the house, even if it's not the father. 

I don't think our locker room could've contained/fixed Hardy's attitude. While Pacman has been partially healed here, I think Zimmer helped with that. I don't know how much Guenther would've helped. I'll admit that I was intrigued with Hardy, but I wasn't upset about missing out on him.