(11-09-2015, 03:02 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You were implying his success was only a result of scheme and throwing the ball alot.  If a scheme is all that is needed for a QB to throw 33 TDs you would expect to find more QBs doing it.  Scoring TDs is sort of the goal of offenses.

I don't think that was the implication at all, especially when I mentioned that he was quite capable of handling such a scheme. He just didn't quite have the mechanics and decision making abilities of what we've seen in 2014 and 2015.

I honestly didn't mean it as a disparaging remark, but a fact. Just as the scheme dictated Hill taking away red zone TDs from Andy in 2014, it happens sometimes.

(11-09-2015, 02:35 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Mediocre QBs have NEVER thrown a lot of TDs one time in their career. Amirite?!?!

that bastard burned me bad in fantasy last year

(11-09-2015, 01:47 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: just saying you hear that line alot.. .about year 5...  I think that is more of having experience in the game than the general year or age of the QB...  After 4 years you have seen alot of different defenses and have had a lot of work within your offense especially with the continuity we have enjoyed here...

And its not just ADs experience but the group hes been with for years now...   Instead of going out and keep bringing in a yearly rental MB and ML gave this group a chance to grow together.  And while that didnt bring the instant success (depends on your stance on that but lets say playoff victories)  it does seem to be paying off now.

Of course like they say on the TV we gotta wait till january to really see.

But it seems like everything is clicking.

Dont know if its just having the weapons back.
Being more experienced
Or the confidence he has in himself now.
Or him being a leader

Or all of it.

but its working.

and while i expected dalton to improve each season... for those first few years everyone around him kept getting younger and less experienced.
especially 2012 where they replaced caldwell and simpson with 2 rookies named Jones and sanu.   then we replaced the RB core the next 2 years and got a young TE whos finally paying huge dividends

Actual NFL quarterbacks will tell you that year 5 is when it all seems to come together.

(11-09-2015, 04:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Actual NFL quarterbacks will tell you that year 5 is when it all seems to come together.

Peyton Manning had his best season in his 7th year starting.
Tom Brady had his best season in his 7th year starting.
Aaron Rodgers had his best season in his 7th year in the league.

Coincidence? I think not. Looks like we need to hold off our judgment for Andy for 2 more years.

(11-09-2015, 04:45 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Peyton Manning had his best season in his 7th year starting.
Tom Brady had his best season in his 7th year starting.
Aaron Rodgers had his best season in his 7th year in the league.

Coincidence? I think not. Looks like we need to hold off our judgment for Andy for 2 more years.

Well if the team gets a playoff victory this year he will be 1 year ahead of manning.

(11-09-2015, 01:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So is anyone still waiting for the other shoe to drop or do you think Dalton has really become a top QB?

I think I'll have my doubts for a while, but it won't stop me from buying in all of the way while he's doing what he's doing right now.  I will say that I was wrong about him in saying that his ceiling was 2013 level play, but at the same time I feel that he might be playing a bit better than reality right now.

In any way, the bar has certainly been raised with him.

(11-09-2015, 07:03 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I think I'll have my doubts for a while, but it won't stop me from buying in all of the way while he's doing what he's doing right now.  I will say that I was wrong about him in saying that his ceiling was 2013 level play, but at the same time I feel that he might be playing a bit better than reality right now.

In any way, the bar has certainly been raised with him.

How can someone play better than reality? I mean, I'm watching real NFL games, and not people playing madden right?

(11-09-2015, 08:30 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How can someone play better than reality? I mean, I'm watching real NFL games, and not people playing madden right?

By playing better than they actually are? 

Do you really think that 2012 RG3 is a great QB? 2012 playoff Flacco? 2013 Nick Foles or Colin Kaepernick?  How about the current Josh McCown?

(11-09-2015, 05:12 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well if the team gets a playoff victory this year he will be 1 year ahead of manning.

And 3 years behind Kaepnernick. Just saying.

But, in all seriousness, it's good to see Dalton playing very well.

(11-09-2015, 08:42 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: By playing better than they actually are? 

Do you really think that 2012 RG3 is a great QB? 2012 playoff Flacco? 2013 Nick Foles or Colin Kaepernick?  How about the current Josh McCown?

2012 RG3 was due to their offensive scheme. Alford Morris had a amazing year along with RG3 because opposing defenses didn't know how to stop it. Kaepernick was the same way. He had all pros at every position including defense.

Nick Foles had a good season in 2013, but most of his stats came from two games. He had 7 TDs and +400 yards just against oakland. He had another +400 yards and 3 TDs against Minnesota. No other games he had over 300 yards. He also had the best RB in the league, and really good receivers.

Flacco isn't that bad of a QB. He just seems to be able to step up his game in the playoffs. It's not like he's a bum in the regular seasn. At least the last couple of years he has.

(11-09-2015, 09:22 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: 2012 RG3 was due to their offensive scheme. Alford Morris had a amazing year along with RG3 because opposing defenses didn't know how to stop it. Kaepernick was the same way. He had all pros at every position including defense.

Nick Foles had a good season in 2013, but most of his stats came from two games. He had 7 TDs and +400 yards just against oakland. He had another +400 yards and 3 TDs against Minnesota. No other games he had over 300 yards. He also had the best RB in the league, and really good receivers.

Flacco isn't that bad of a QB. He just seems to be able to step up his game in the playoffs. It's not like he's a bum in the regular seasn. At least the last couple of years he has.

So what you're saying is that players can play better than they actually are.  Seems like I've seen that somewhere else in this thread.


Don't mind me for pointing out hypocrisy though...

(11-09-2015, 09:35 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: So what you're saying is that players can play better than they actually are.  Seems like I've seen that somewhere else in this thread.


Don't mind me for pointing out hypocrisy though...

None of those players played at a high level consistently. Dalton has been playing at a high level consistently this year. People like Kaepernick was never that good. They just ran the ball and had a great defense. Kaepernick only had 6 games where he threw for over 200 yards in 2013, but people thought he was good because his team carried him.

Dalton is one of the best QBs the Bengals have ever had! Being 8-0, only throwing 4 interceptions and throwing for over 2,000 yards already this season is impressive! I came across this podcast that compares Dalton to Boomer and the 1988 Superbowl bound Bengals : https://realfootballnetwork.com/blog/2015/11/10/11-10-15-week-9-wrap-up/ Its a quick listen, but interesting!

I have to give Brownshoe credit here, although he just sounds completely insane 99% of the time, he never steps away from his position of the craziest Andy fanboy in the universe. There will NEVER be a time that he doesn't make excuses for Andy, there will NEVER be a time where he gives another QB of a similar skillset credit for what he does, there will ALWAYS be someone else at fault when Andy has a bad game, he will ALWAYS take away from other QBs when they have good games.

There's no legitimate reasoning behind most of it and honestly no point to even try rational debate because he will never change his stance even if you throw proof and facts right in his face. He'll just turn around and make up more excuses. Hell, I'm surprised he hasn't found more ways to defend Andy's game against Cleveland last year.

Seriously though, kudos man, I don't know how you have it in you. You make more excuses for Andy Dalton than most people will make for their own children and families. I'm repping your account in general just because of how dedicated you are to this guy and you've never let down one bit. I mean, even most of the other pro-Andy guys think you're nuts too, but at least you can say you've always been consistent. Oh, and when I say "consistent", I don't mean your arguments are consistent, because they're obviously all over the place with contradictions and hypocrisy since you give Andy every excuse in the book yet hammer any other QB in the league with no excuses whatsoever. I mean consistent in your love for Andy Dalton.

I can just see WhoDeyWho licking his lips at the opportunity to make a condescending, passive aggressive statement to this, just a one liner like "Yeah, because Andy needs excuses.", even though I'm obviously referring to someone defending him when he wasn't playing at such a high level. Can't wait for that one.

(11-10-2015, 11:37 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I have to give Brownshoe credit here, although he just sounds completely insane 99% of the time, he never steps away from his position of the craziest Andy fanboy in the universe. There will NEVER be a time that he doesn't make excuses for Andy, there will NEVER be a time where he gives another QB of a similar skillset credit for what he does, there will ALWAYS be someone else at fault when Andy has a bad game, he will ALWAYS take away from other QBs when they have good games.

There's no legitimate reasoning behind most of it and honestly no point to even try rational debate because he will never change his stance even if you throw proof and facts right in his face. He'll just turn around and make up more excuses. Hell, I'm surprised he hasn't found more ways to defend Andy's game against Cleveland last year.

Seriously though, kudos man, I don't know how you have it in you. You make more excuses for Andy Dalton than most people will make for their own children and families. I'm repping your account in general just because of how dedicated you are to this guy and you've never let down one bit. I mean, even most of the other pro-Andy guys think you're nuts too, but at least you can say you've always been consistent.    Oh, and when I say "consistent", I don't mean your arguments are consistent, because they're obviously all over the place with contradictions and hypocrisy since you give Andy every excuse in the book yet hammer any other QB in the league with no excuses whatsoever. I mean consistent in your love for Andy Dalton.

I can just see WhoDeyWho licking his lips at the opportunity to make a condescending, passive aggressive statement to this, just a one liner like "Yeah, because Andy needs excuses.", even though I'm obviously referring to someone defending him when he wasn't playing at such a high level. Can't wait for that one.

When it comes to condescension, no one can outdo you I'm afraid.  At least Brownshoe was justified in his support of Dalton.  Makes all of those "experts" who thought we should be looking for a new QB look like Browns fans.   

(11-09-2015, 09:00 PM)BengalChris Wrote: And 3 years behind Kaepnernick. Just saying.

But, in all seriousness, it's good to see Dalton playing very well.

kaepnernick rides the bench... hes no longer comparable to Dalton

(11-10-2015, 12:14 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: When it comes to condescension, no one can outdo you I'm afraid.  At least Brownshoe was justified in his support of Dalton.  Makes all of those "experts" who thought we should be looking for a new QB look like Browns fans.   

Whoa there, first of all, I'm usually the "this is why you're dumb and this is why I'm not" kind of straight forward guy in my arguments. I don't really shoot out passive aggressive one liners and tons of condescending comments as you do. I'm afraid you may not know what these terms actually mean if you think I do that more than anyone on the boards. That's not really my style, though I'll dip into it occasionally. Thanks for proving my point with this post of yours though.

Second, this is yet another illogical post with the same exact thought process that I keep seeing on these boards. No, Brownshoe wasn't "justified" in defending Andy as if he was the dude's first born child in the past just because Andy is playing at a high level in 2015. What is so difficult to comprehend here? Andy playing like an All-Pro in 2015 has NOTHING to do with someone's analysis being correct or incorrect over the previous 4 years. The only thing anyone can toot their horn about being "right" about was that Andy should have stuck around longer than some people wanted him, but to be honest, most of us were cool with Andy being our QB in 2015 due to his contract and other factors considered.

You're flat out wrong because you're using logical fallacies and strawman arguments. Nothing you're saying is refuting any of my points whatsoever.

(11-10-2015, 12:28 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Whoa there, first of all, I'm usually the "this is why you're dumb and this is why I'm not" kind of straight forward guy in my arguments. I don't really shoot out passive aggressive one liners and tons of condescending comments as you do. I'm afraid you may not know what these terms actually mean if you think I do that more than anyone on the boards. That's not really my style, though I'll dip into it occasionally. Thanks for proving my point with this post of yours though.

Second, this is yet another illogical post with the same exact thought process that I keep seeing on these boards. No, Brownshoe wasn't "justified" in defending Andy as if he was the dude's first born child in the past just because Andy is playing at a high level in 2015. What is so difficult to comprehend here? Andy playing like an All-Pro in 2015 has NOTHING to do with someone's analysis being correct or incorrect over the previous 4 years. The only thing anyone can toot their horn about being "right" about was that Andy should have stuck around longer than some people wanted him, but to be honest, most of us were cool with Andy being our QB in 2015 due to his contract and other factors considered.

You're flat out wrong because you're using logical fallacies and strawman arguments. Nothing you're saying is refuting any of my points whatsoever.

Yeah.  Calling people "dumb" isn't condescending.  Look.  We all know you are the voice of reason on these boards.  It is your job to keep all the "Dalton lovers" in line.  What would these boards be like without you playing your vital and pivotal role?  

Thanks for putting us in our place.  

(11-10-2015, 12:37 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: 1. Yeah.  Calling people "dumb" isn't condescending.  Look.  We all know you are the voice of reason on these boards.  It is your job to keep all the "Dalton lovers" in line.  What would these boards be like without you playing your vital and pivotal role?  

2. Thanks for putting us in our place.  

1. I like how you did it again, do you even realize it? Can you help yourself or do you purposely make 90% of your posts be "Yeah, *insert sarcastic/passive aggressive/condescending comment*"? It's an interesting tactic. That way, you don't have to make good arguments, but you can get all teh reps and e-love from the Andy lovers without actually saying much at all or refuting anything that anyone says. Kudos. From seeing your non-football related posts, you seem like a bright enough guy that you could add a lot to discussions if you chose to do so. Just sayin', would be nice to see more than "yeah, because *condescending one liner*" sometimes.



2.

(11-10-2015, 12:53 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 1. I like how you did it again, do you even realize it? Can you help yourself or do you purposely make 90% of your posts be "Yeah, *insert sarcastic/passive aggressive/condescending comment*"? It's an interesting tactic. That way, you don't have to make good arguments, but you can get all teh reps and e-love from the Andy lovers without actually saying much at all or refuting anything that anyone says. Kudos. From seeing your non-football related posts, you seem like a bright enough guy that you could add a lot to discussions if you chose to do so. Just sayin', would be nice to see more than "yeah, because *condescending one liner*" sometimes.



2.

If only rep and "e-love" could buy me something of actual value.

I am the WEBMASTER of one of the top Bengals Message Boards on the planet.  What other "rep" do I need?