(09-21-2021, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?  What are you basing this claim on?

I don't know about his blocking numbers this year, but last year pretty much all sources had himlisted as one of the best blocking TEs in the entire league.

Lol I'd love to see those sources.  PFF Currently has him with a 60.2 Run Block grade this year (25th overall) and rated him overall 61.4 last season (44th overall).  Hard to imagine a player that rates out in the bottom half of the league amongst tight ends would have a blocking score that would put him as "one of the best".    

It was a questionable pick at the time and 3 years later it's evident he's a bust.  Time to move on.  

(09-21-2021, 01:30 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote:  Hard to imagine a player that rates out in the bottom half of the league amongst tight ends would have a blocking score that would put him as "one of the best".    
 

Since you are a PFF fan please provide liink to last years PFF run blocking an pass blocking ratings for Sample. 

Drew Sample was taken with 52nd pick overall in 2019. Andrew Whitworth was taken with the 55th pick overall in 2006.

Sample may yet turn out to be a great player but I just want to highlight how valuable 2nd round picks can be for our offensive blocking.

(09-21-2021, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since you are a PFF fan please provide liink to last years PFF run blocking an pass blocking ratings for Sample. 

As soon as you provide all these "sources" that listed Sample as "one of the best blocking TEs in the entire league".

(09-21-2021, 10:21 AM)jj22 Wrote: Just a clarification question. Are we disappointed in Sample as a player or because of his draft position? If he was a 5th round pick would he be fine -even up for an extension?

If he was a 5th rd pick, it would be easier for the FO to justify his being cut. 

(09-21-2021, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Hewitt lined up much more often at TE/slot than he did as a lead FB.  When Eifert went out with injury in 2014 Hewitt played almost 500 snaps with the overwhelming majority at TE.

If you want to die on this cross I will forget about Hewitt and just start pointing out all the other players on other teams who are used for blocking just like we use Sample.

375 of them were on offense.
174 in the backfield.
164 Inline.
16 Slot.
21 Wide. 

I know you don't like PFF but that year, every single game he was green with an overall 75.2 passblocking grade, except for 1 game. Run blocking he was about 15 pts lower. As a receiver he was 8 catches out of 10 targets with 99 yards and 0 tds. 

(09-21-2021, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since you are a PFF fan please provide liink to last years PFF run blocking an pass blocking ratings for Sample. 

(09-21-2021, 02:48 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: As soon as you provide all these "sources" that listed Sample as "one of the best blocking TEs in the entire league".

Of the 31 TEs who had at least 44 pass blocks Drew had the 4th highest blocking grade.

Your turn.

(09-21-2021, 01:30 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Lol I'd love to see those sources.  PFF Currently has him with a 60.2 Run Block grade this year (25th overall) and rated him overall 61.4 last season (44th overall).  

Oh I see what you tried to do here.  You tried to pass off his overall ranking as his blocking ranking.

That is pretty lame.

(09-21-2021, 04:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote:

So Sample had a 72.6 ranking on pass blocking and a 72,1 in run blocking.

How do those rank among the TEs that played a reasonable number of snaps?

(09-21-2021, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh I see what you tried to do here.  You tried to pass off his overall ranking as his blocking ranking.

That is pretty lame.




So Sample had a 72.6 ranking on pass blocking and a 72,1 in run blocking.

How do those rank among the TEs that played a reasonable number of snaps?

You're looking to cherry pick one PFF ranking in an attempt to validate the Sample pick and you're calling me lame?  

(09-21-2021, 05:36 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: You're looking to cherry pick one PFF ranking in an attempt to validate the Sample pick and you're calling me lame?  

That’s what football savant Fred does. Give him some time though he’s probably still building the list of blocking TEs who are highly valuable to their teams like Sample is to the Bengals.

(09-21-2021, 05:36 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: You're looking to cherry pick one PFF ranking in an attempt to validate the Sample pick and you're calling me lame?  

Not sure what you are trying to say.

We were discussing Sample's blocking ability.  I used "blocking stats" to address his blocking ability.  You tried to use something else.

Now you are refusing to back up your original claim by trying to move the goalposts.

(09-21-2021, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you are trying to say.

We were discussing Sample's blocking ability.  I used "blocking stats" to address his blocking ability.  You tried to use something else.

Now you are refusing to back up your original claim by trying to move the goalposts.

Haven’t you questioned PFFs credibility before anyways? You either trust them or don’t, which is it?

Just a waste of a 2nd round pick. A ridiculous pick if we are honest

(09-20-2021, 10:51 PM)Housh Wrote: Hes not really there to catch 50 balls though. To anyone who may be a TE enthusiast is he at least a good blocker? If he was I feel like hed be playing more. But then again if he was pure trash Moss wouldve beat him out so hes doing SOMETHING.

He's not good enough to block a DE 1 on 1, but he's a solid blocker.
Uzomah's been fine as a blocker though and is more of a receiving threat, so he sees the field over Sample.
I personally don't like the old school style of a TE being primarily a blocker though.
In most modern day offenses, your primary TE has to be able to be a receiving threat.
They don't have to be elite, but they do need to make teams worry about getting beat.

Like I said when we drafted him.....When you see a TE sitting there in the second round with 496 career yards over three seasons you sprint to the podium and draft him.

(09-21-2021, 05:50 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: That’s what football savant Fred does. Give him some time though he’s probably still building the list of blocking TEs who are highly valuable to their teams like Sample is to the Bengals.

I can't help it.  When I see people that need educating I feel obligated to help them.  Vast knowledge is a gift that should be shared.

Last year the Packers had the #1 scoring offense in the league.  They also had TE Marcedes Lewis play 422 snaps while only getting 10 receptions.

The Saints had the #5 offense.  They also had TE Josh Hill play 359 snaps with only 8 receptions.

The Falcons had Luke Stocker play 503 snaps with only 7 receptions.

The Steelers had Vance McDonald play 684 snaps with only 15 receptions

The Vikings had Tyler Conklin play 449 snaps and only get 19 receptions

Raiders had Jason Witten play 405 snaps with only 13 receptions

Cardinals had Darren Daniels play 365 snaps (in only 12 games) with only 8 receptions.

Miami had Adam Shaheen play 367 snaps with only 12 receptions.

And these are only teams that finished in the top half of the league in offense last year.  I am sure I could find many more examples from the other 16 teams.

(09-21-2021, 06:16 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Haven’t you questioned PFFs credibility before anyways? You either trust them or don’t, which is it?

I don't think they are always accurate.  I use other stats whenever possible.  But in this case there are no other stats.

At least they are a hell of a lot more than you have to back up your position.

(09-20-2021, 10:37 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I wanted to bring up something that we can all agree on, Sample is just useless out there. What a joke.

I’ve seen teams alleviate pressure by utilizing TEs as that quick safety net ala Heath Miller or Jason Witten, but have we even tried?  No, he’s just out there for blocking… Just put in a lineman as eligible receiver to do his job. Either that or actually throw some short stuff over the middle.

I’ve defended Sandra a lot, but at this point it’s pathetic, there is absolutely no reason to use him as a blocker if he contributes nothing in the pass game. He isn’t fooling anyone.

I like Drew if used correctly, this is probably my biggest problem with Zac is the lack of creativity with our TE's. Use Sample and Uzo 
to chip and run out into the flat for more options for Burrow sure would be nice. I mean this is football 1-0-1 to make Defenses pay.

The RB' and the TE's especially have not been used correctly to help out Burrow, at all. Need to learn Zac. This part is the sad part 
of the first 2 games. Watch the Chiefs, Kelce and their new TE are always chipping and annoying the shit out of the Ends instead of 
taking them head on like an OT for heck sake. Never understood this when it is on display watching the best team at this in the NFL
every damn Sunday.

(09-21-2021, 10:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think they are always accurate.  I use other stats whenever possible.  But in this case there are no other stats.

At least they are a hell of a lot more than you have to back up your position.

I stand corrected. Drew Sample can whiff on blocks, not catch a pass, and still be a highly valuable member of this offense. I never knew he was right up there with Jason Witten and Mercedes Lewis. Thanks for the 101.