(09-29-2021, 03:50 AM)Sanforbd Wrote: Obviously the ravens are a threat but there’s no question which qb id rather have, that style of play doesn’t seem to work in the playoffs. Good coaching and good defense figure him out

I want to argue with you but 

Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD

Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
[b]Super Bowl 54: [/b]Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs


Between SB 33 and 55 you have only 2 running QBs that have won SBs.  John Elway and Russell Wilson.  Rogers is 10th all time in rushing yards for QBs but Im not going to try to pretend he's a rushing QB and Brady is 10th all time in attempts by a QB but, lol just no.


so, point taken.  He still really fun to watch.

(09-29-2021, 09:48 AM)motoarch Wrote: I want to argue with you but 

Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD

Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
[b]Super Bowl 54: [/b]Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs


Between SB 33 and 55 you have only 2 running QBs that have won SBs.  John Elway and Russell Wilson.  Rogers is 10th all time in rushing yards for QBs but Im not going to try to pretend he's a rushing QB and Brady is 10th all time in attempts by a QB but, lol just no.


so, point taken.  He still really fun to watch.

I would not call Elway a running QB. To me a running QB is someone like Lamar or Vick or Cunningham. Guys who are feared for their legs almost as much, if not more so, their arms; guys who required a defender to "spy" them. Elway may have been elusive and could run for 1st downs, but I never envisioned him as someone like that.

(09-28-2021, 09:48 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not really. He has moments like good QBs do. He's a good QB but he's middle of the pack good. 

It's amazing how much you prop up other QBs without knowing much about them but crap all over the QB that plays for the team you supposedly root for. 

I hate to break the news, but Burrow is going to be here for a while. Might as well at least try and embrace him. 

 the point is Browns got better when he took over at QB, so what came first chicken or egg.. QBs can raise games of players just like players can do the same.. in the end, winning is want matters, playoff appearances and playoff wins which he has done...

Not sure where Burrow comes into this discussion but I hope  Burrow lead us to the turn around that Mayfield has done with the Browns I would be ecstatic if we get to playoffs and win...

Once the Browns have to start paying Baker next year they will fall off a cliff. I personally believe he's a good qb, but not a qb that can carry a team when you pay him top 10 qb money (which he will demand.)

Lamar is great, but I still feel like his style of play is not sustainable for 5+ years. And again, he is going to demand top 5 qb money next year.

It cannot be underestimated how much you have to depend on your qb to carry the team once you start paying them 15% (or more) of your total team salary. Of all the AFCN quarterbacks, I would entrust that kind of responsibility on Burrow more than any of the others.

(09-29-2021, 01:34 PM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: Once the Browns have to start paying Baker next year they will fall off a cliff.   I personally believe he's a good qb,  but not a qb that can carry a team when you pay him top 10 qb money (which he will demand.)

Lamar is great, but I still feel like his style of play is not sustainable for 5+ years.   And again, he is going to demand top 5 qb money next year.

It cannot be underestimated how much you have to depend on your qb to carry the team once you start paying them 15% (or more) of your total team salary.  Of all the AFCN quarterbacks, I would entrust that kind of responsibility on Burrow more than any of the others.

So true about the advantage you have during your quarterback's first deal.  We are currently within that window for the time being and need to take advantage of it. 

(09-29-2021, 09:53 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I would not call Elway a running QB. To me a running QB is someone like Lamar or Vick or Cunningham. Guys who are feared for their legs almost as much, if not more so, their arms; guys who required a defender to "spy" them. Elway may have been elusive and could run for 1st downs, but I never envisioned him as someone like that.

He's 5th all-time in attempts, 8th in total TDs, 9th in total yards, 3rd in receiving yards.  By today's standards of rushing QBs his numbers are more modest but you didn't have many running QBs.  Guys Tarkington, Steve Young and Elway were the running QBs.  Cunningham was on another level.

Now it's much more normal.  Some of the all-time guys still haven't finished playing yet.  Newton, Wilson, Jackson have or will far surpass the older generations of running QBs.  Vick sort of falls between these eras and is still the most prolific runner.

I get what you're saying though.  I suppose it's all a matter of personal perspective.  I remember watching him do things with his feet other QBs couldn't or wouldn't do and to that was what a running QB was.

(09-29-2021, 01:34 PM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: Once the Browns have to start paying Baker next year they will fall off a cliff.   I personally believe he's a good qb,  but not a qb that can carry a team when you pay him top 10 qb money (which he will demand.)

Lamar is great, but I still feel like his style of play is not sustainable for 5+ years.   And again, he is going to demand top 5 qb money next year.

It cannot be underestimated how much you have to depend on your qb to carry the team once you start paying them 15% (or more) of your total team salary.  Of all the AFCN quarterbacks, I would entrust that kind of responsibility on Burrow more than any of the others.

Second contracts needed to be based on overall performance of your first 4/5 years.. Burrow still has to raise his performance over time to be deserving of  top 5 money...

Ben looked like wet shit on Sunday. His arm appears to be shot on passes over 20 yards. No touch at all.

End of an era, and a welcomed one to be sure.

(09-29-2021, 02:13 PM)motoarch Wrote: Cunningham was on another level.

Cunningham, Vick, and Jackson are on a different level.

Even though Russell Wilson rushed for 900 yards one year he still is not in the same class as those 3. And Russ is a better passer.

Steve Young was an elite, not just "good", running QB but most people don't remember that bevause of his passing game and low number of carries.

Elway and Tarkington were more just great "scramblers" than running QBs.

Bobby Douglas was just mote of a RB who played QB one year.

Not only is Ben terrible, but their entire room is terrible. Mason and Haskins sure don't look like the answer. Need the steelers to win just enough games to stay out of the realm of drafting their next franchise guy in the draft.

(09-29-2021, 04:48 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Not only is Ben terrible, but their entire room is terrible. Mason and Haskins sure don't look like the answer. Need the steelers to win just enough games to stay out of the realm of drafting their next franchise guy in the draft.

Or draft an injury plagued QB that just can't seem to ever be healthy.

(09-29-2021, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Cunningham, Vick, and Jackson are on a different level.

Even though Russell Wilson rushed for 900 yards one year he still is not in the same class as those 3. And Russ is a better passer.

Steve Young was an elite, not just "good", running QB but most people don't remember that bevause of his passing game and low number of carries.

Elway and Tarkington were more just great "scramblers" than running QBs.

Bobby Douglas was just mote of a RB who played QB one year.

I feel like we're splitting hairs here but I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.  But considering both Elway and Tarkington are in the top 10 all-time in nearly every rushing stat I'm not sure how anyone could argue they were good running QBs.

Again, like I said in my previous post.  Its a matter of personal perspective.

The outliers you mentioned in you first sentence are so far on the periphery of normal that it skews our perspective of what we expect a running QB to be.

The game has changed making 30 to 40 TD passes a year more the norm than an outlier.  When I was young Dan Mario was the best and known as a prolific passer.  He had 6 straight seasons with 21 to 28 TDs.  That was a lot but means very little in today's game.  Does that mean he wasn't a great passing QB?

Yes I purposely left out his first 3 seasons to make a point.  He was still considered great even when he wasn't throwing over 30 TDs a year.  Those were extreme outliers in his time and you could argue even more impressive than a 50 TD year today.

(09-28-2021, 10:33 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I agree. Baker is a good QB, but not elite. Joe has the potential to be the best of all 4, but right now Jackson is definitely the most dynamic.

It's a very good division of QBs though. Except for Ben, of course. He sucks.

This.

Lamar having back issues. Missed practice time two weeks in a row now. Said he had a sore hip after diving into the end zone vs KC. Don't think Lamar is going to make a whole season this year......

(09-30-2021, 05:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Lamar having back issues. Missed practice time two weeks in  a row now. Said he had a sore hip after diving into the end zone vs KC. Don't think Lamar is going to make a whole season this year......

As soon as i saw him flip and land on that hip, i said to myself, that dude is lucky he didn't just injure himself. 

(09-30-2021, 05:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: As soon as i saw him flip and land on that hip, i said to myself, that dude is lucky he didn't just injure himself. 

Evidently he did. They don't have any RB's, and Lamar is their leading rusher. No way he lasts.... he was sacked 4 times last week

(09-30-2021, 05:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Lamar having back issues. Missed practice time two weeks in  a row now. Said he had a sore hip after diving into the end zone vs KC. Don't think Lamar is going to make a whole season this year......

(09-30-2021, 05:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: As soon as i saw him flip and land on that hip, i said to myself, that dude is lucky he didn't just injure himself. 

Wasn't smart by him, it was a needless celebration.

(09-30-2021, 05:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Evidently he did. They don't have any RB's, and Lamar is their leading rusher. No way he lasts.... he was sacked 4 times last week

Feeling the same Sled.

Baker was awful today (15/33 155 yds 0 TD 59.5 rating) and the Browns still won. Like I said, the running game totally carries that team.

(10-03-2021, 06:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Baker was awful today (15/33 155 yds 0 TD  59.5 rating) and the Browns still won. Like I said, the running game totally carries that team.

Well to be honest the refs gave the game to the Stains. Without a phantom defensive hold that no one could identify called on the Vikes when it was 4th and goal and Hayseed threw incomplete the Vikings win. 

(10-03-2021, 06:38 PM)Joelist Wrote: Well to be honest the refs gave the game to the Stains. Without a phantom defensive hold that no one could identify called on the Vikes when it was 4th and goal and Hayseed threw incomplete the Vikings win. 

Yeah, that was a super weak call.