(10-03-2021, 11:59 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Again, that's who you want, not reality.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Chad ISN'T in before Curtis, period.

And Chad is significantly more-deserving.

Ok newbie.

(10-04-2021, 12:21 AM)Mobster Wrote: Ok newbie.

Did Curtis ever lead the the league in any significant receiving category? Or even the conference? How did he stack up against his peers compared to Chad?

(10-04-2021, 12:21 AM)Mobster Wrote: Ok newbie.

Fan since I was 3 (1992), nice try

I knew who John Copeland and Tony McGee were, before I knew how to tie my shoes.

(10-04-2021, 12:23 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Did Curtis ever lead the the league in any significant receiving category? Or even the conference? How did he stack up against his peers compared to Chad?

The only thing he ever led in, was Y/R in 1975.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CurtIs00.htm

He had 2 seasons in top 10 of yards, 4 in TDs and is 53rd all-time in Y/R, which was his best attribute.

Fairly pedestrian, actually (and no, I'm not trolling; that is absolutely pedestrian. Maybe ascended pedestrian).

EDIT* I mean, James Lofton played in the same era, on worse teams and he had almost double the amount of yards, in only 4 more seasons and had 6 years of 1,000 yards. Ditto for Steve Largent, though he came through a touch later and played longer as well.

Just looking at the all-time yards list, there are SO MANY guys in the same era and a decade before, who have more yards than Curtis.

And that's just yards; I haven't even looked at TDs or anything.

(10-04-2021, 12:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:

Fan since I was 3 (1992), nice try

I knew who John Copeland and Tony McGee were, before I knew how to tie my shoes.

3? Who inflicted such misery on you at such a young age?

(10-04-2021, 12:34 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 3? Who inflicted such misery on you at such a young age?

I liked Tigers (all cats, actually) a lot at the time (still do, lol, but fish have been my animal of choice since I turned about 11/12) and even though the only team I really knew were the Cowboys (due to my dad's fandom), when I went to play as Dallas on the original John Madden Football, on the Genesis (the very first console version of the game), due to Dallas being the worst team in the league in '88/'89, they weren't on the game at all! So my uncle (who owned the Genesis) suggested that I play as Cincinnati, since I liked Tigers. And thus, a fandom was born! lol

I learned to tie my shoes when I was 6 (1995) and watching sports highlights started when I was 4ish. For some reason, I always remembered those two players (and Boomer; Boomer was the first Bengal I was aware of and was my favourite player ever, until Whitworth), thus when I got my next Madden game (Madden '98, in 1997), to play as those two guys was AWESOME in my young eyes lol.

It's why McGee's my favourite TE ever (and probably our 2nd best TE ever, after Trumpy, IMO) and Copeland is my favourite DE ever, after Dunlap and Michael McCrary (though until he retires or somehow, magically comes back to us, I'm indifferent on Dunlap. McCrary's just a boss, period).

Like I said before, since it comes down to season ticket holders, a lot of the newer guys will make it when they older players are probably more deserving to go in first, simply because so many did not see them play. They know Atkins, but don't know Krumrie. They have no idea how good a guard Montoya was, and never saw the magic that was Isaac Curtis. I'm all about putting Chad and Geno and all of them in, I'd just like to see the older guys go up first before they die.

need me one of those jackets.

(10-04-2021, 01:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Like I said before, since it comes down to season ticket holders, a lot of the newer guys will make it when they older players are probably more deserving to go in first, simply because so many did not see them play. They know Atkins, but don't know Krumrie. They have no idea how good a guard Montoya was, and never saw the magic that was Isaac Curtis. I'm all about putting Chad and Geno and all of them in, I'd just like to see the older guys go up first before they die.

I think the long-time tix holders like Bengal Jim and the like, know who should go in and influence the fanbase, accordingly.

I would have Chad, Pickens, Collinsworth go in before Curtis.

My 2021 votes were Ken Anderson and Willie Anderson. I will vote Willie again until he is inducted. He's one of the best RTs to ever play the game, essentially our all-time bookend to Munoz.

The other vote will be very difficult. I don't think it will be a wide receiver. We have so many great WRs, but I don't think they're my first choices as "most dominant players at their position" relative to their peers of their eras. Without giving it a ton of thought, my first instinct is Lemar Parrish. I actually think he was a better corner than Ken Riley (with all due respect to Ken who was plenty deserving of his induction anyway). I believe Riley snared many of his interceptions because opposing QBs were willing to take that risk instead of throwing in the direction of Lemar Parrish.

What a lot forget is that Curtis played back when defenses could really bust up receivers and it wasn't a pass happy league. He still had to play Pittsburgh twice a year when they were in all essence mugging him so he couldn't catch the ball, often triple teaming him which lead to the Issac Curtis rule of no contact after 5 yards. Before then defenses got away with blatant pass interference all the time.

(10-04-2021, 12:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:

Fan since I was 3 (1992), nice try

I knew who John Copeland and Tony McGee were, before I knew how to tie my shoes.

Like I said, Newbie. If you didn't start watching the Bengals until the 1990s, you're a newbie.

Luckily, the people who have the biggest say in the ring of honor vote have been around a while and have some perspective, having actually watched guys like Isaac Curtis play. 

(10-04-2021, 10:45 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I liked Tigers (all cats, actually) a lot at the time (still do, lol, but fish have been my animal of choice since I turned about 11/12) and even though the only team I really knew were the Cowboys (due to my dad's fandom), when I went to play as Dallas on the original John Madden Football, on the Genesis (the very first console version of the game), due to Dallas being the worst team in the league in '88/'89, they weren't on the game at all! So my uncle (who owned the Genesis) suggested that I play as Cincinnati, since I liked Tigers. And thus, a fandom was born! lol

I learned to tie my shoes when I was 6 (1995) and watching sports highlights started when I was 4ish. For some reason, I always remembered those two players (and Boomer; Boomer was the first Bengal I was aware of and was my favourite player ever, until Whitworth), thus when I got my next Madden game (Madden '98, in 1997), to play as those two guys was AWESOME in my young eyes lol.

It's why McGee's my favourite TE ever (and probably our 2nd best TE ever, after Trumpy, IMO) and Copeland is my favourite DE ever, after Dunlap and Michael McCrary (though until he retires or somehow, magically comes back to us, I'm indifferent on Dunlap. McCrary's just a boss, period).

Hate to inform you, but nobody who actually watched them play would ever have Tony McGee over Rodney Holman. On top of being a big time threat as a receiver who could stretch defenses deep, he was also maybe the best blocking TE in the league. It was like having an extra tackle in the game, and he was a big reason why we had such a dominant running game

(10-04-2021, 09:02 PM)Mobster Wrote: Hate to inform you, but nobody who actually watched them play would ever have Tony McGee over Rodney Holman. On top of being a big time threat as a receiver who could stretch defenses deep, he was also maybe the best blocking TE in the league. It was like having an extra tackle in the game, and he was a big reason why we had such a dominant running game

Sorry, but McGee put up as good numbers per season, with a significantly-shittier team and he was just as good a blocker as Holman.

Love how you old-timers get so curmudgeony when a younger guy from outside the country challenges them.

McGee on the 80s teams is a 700+ yard a year TE, in addition to being a superb blocker.

EDIT*

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=HolmRo00&player_id1=McGeTo00&sum=0&request=1

So please, do tell how he was, "worse?"

It's like everyone has blacked out the 90s just because of the results (outside of Dillon); we had a bunch of really good players, regardless about how people feel about them.

(10-04-2021, 06:47 PM)grampahol Wrote: What a lot forget is that Curtis played back when defenses could really bust up receivers and it wasn't a pass happy league. He still had to play Pittsburgh twice a year when they were in all essence mugging him so he couldn't catch the ball, often triple teaming him which lead to the Issac Curtis rule of no contact after 5 yards. Before then defenses got away with blatant pass interference all the time.

I think everyone acknowledges that it was a different era, but you still have to compare him to his peers. And from what I can tell he was never a top 2-3 player at his position. But guys like Chad, Willie, Boomer, Dillon, etc certainly were.

(10-04-2021, 09:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think everyone acknowledges that it was a different era, but you still have to compare him to his peers. And from what I can tell he was never a top 2-3 player at his position. But guys like Chad, Willie, Boomer, Dillon, etc certainly were.

Of mentioned, Chad went to 6 Pro Bowls.  Willie, Boomer and Dillon had 4.  Guess who else went to 4....

(10-04-2021, 09:44 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Of mentioned, Chad went to 6 Pro Bowls.  Willie, Boomer and Dillon had 4.  Guess who else went to 4....

Pro Bowls are only one measurement when looking at an entire career. Again, how did Curtis stack up against his peers? Because if Truck’s research is accurate (and I’m assuming it is) he was not even close to a guy like Chad who led the conference in receiving yards 4 consecutive years (and the entire league one of them).

The Ring of Honor should be populated by older Bengal players first so they can enjoy being honorees for as many years as possible. It made me sad Ken Riley could not be there. Forrest Gregg and Sam Wyche — both deserving of induction — passed away recently.

With that in mind I would recommend inducting old greats like Bob Trumpy, Isaac Curtis, James Brooks, Jim Breech, and maybe Lemar Parrish.

Once we get the older players taken care of I would like to see Chad in there. Possibly Jeff Blake as he singlehandedly provided hope in the darkness. But I draw the line at Sean Brewer...

(10-04-2021, 06:06 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think the long-time tix holders like Bengal Jim and the like, know who should go in and influence the fanbase, accordingly.

I would have Chad, Pickens, Collinsworth go in before Curtis.

Right, I'm just not sure there are enough long time holders for the vote to go their way. When I look at the crowds at PBS, it seems to me like I am looking at people in the 20-40 age range, instead of people in their 60's like me.