(11-11-2015, 01:09 PM)djs7685 Wrote:

Thanks for illustrating my point. You've managed a non-constructive and totally hostile response to my position 'We cover better without Taylor Mays'. I'm pretty sure my position is also held by Marvin Lewis and the coaches who let him walk too. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, just don't be a butt about it. 

(11-11-2015, 01:17 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Thanks for illustrating my point. You've managed a non-constructive and totally hostile response to my position 'We cover better without Taylor Mays'. I'm pretty sure my position is also held by Marvin Lewis and the coaches who let him walk too. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, just don't be a butt about it. 

No, your position was that "Taylor Mays gave up X yards to Antonio Brown".....who he wasn't even covering.

Oh, so you're just another one of the guys that thinks the coaches decision is the 100% correct one each time, gee, great. Here's a fun fact for you, more things factor into re-signing or signing a player than "is he better than our worst player on the roster??". Money and willingness of the player to re-sign are just a couple of the things that greatly impact someone being re-signed.

....all of this makes me very, very thankful for Tyler Eifert and that finally we have our own legit matchup nightmare at pass receiving TE like Gronk (after the likes of Reggie Kelly, Gresh)

Lets hope that somewhere on the St Louis Rams message board there is a thread about " Eifert?....What i would do with Cory Harkey"

keep him inactive... he is the 4th best TE on the roster. maybe 5th best with fisher

(11-11-2015, 01:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: You are further proving my point with this response. Gronk can shake and Rip him, he can swim him, or he could do any other number of moves to get a release and make the press ineffective causing C.J. to be coming forward (what often happens when you get a bad jam or miss the jam) while Gronk is running by him. This then would require him to be able to quickly flip his hips and turn and run, which is not an easy technique and has cost many CBs their chance in the NFL, then as C.J. finally gets around and is chasing, Gronk makes a cut, maybe even a curl, and C.J. runs right by him.
 
The best TE in the game is not being covered by a nobody TE who has never played CB, especially in press coverage! The technique of football is a huge part of football it's not about just being big and fast.

Nothing in my response proves your point.  I am well aware that Gronk would employ moves to try and shed Uzo in press coverage.  I am also well aware that coverage is about more than just size and speed.  But I also know that there is a lot of "physicality" involved in playing press coverage and there is a big difference between a receiver being being jammed by a DB who weighs 200 lbs and one who weighs 265.  It is much easier for Gronk to shed a DB who weighs 200 instead of 265.

We have 2 months to train C.J.  Playing press coverage requires a lot of technique, but it is not rocket science.

The key is realizing that Brady is most effective when throwing quick, short timing passes. They don't live on having Gronk shed the DB and run deep routes.  So far in 8 games Brady has only attempted 22 passes thrown more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage and does not have a single TD.  221 of his 289 attempts have been less than 10 yards downfield.  We have to do something to effect his timing on these short throws.

(11-11-2015, 01:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing in my response proves your point.  I am well aware that Gronk would employ moves to try and shed Uzo in press coverage.  I am also well aware that coverage is about more than just size and speed.  But I also know that there is a lot of "physicality" involved in playing press coverage and there is a big difference between a receiver being being jammed by a DB who weighs 200 lbs and one who weighs 265.  It is much easier for Gronk to shed a DB who weighs 200 instead of 265.

We have 2 months to train C.J.  Playing press coverage requires a lot of technique, but it is not rocket science.

The key is realizing that Brady is most effective when throwing quick, short timing passes. They don't live on having Gronk shed the DB and run deep routes.  So far in 8 games Brady has only attempted 22 passes thrown more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage and does not have a single TD.  221 of his 289 attempts have been less than 10 yards downfield.  We have to do something to effect his timing on these short throws.

So what do they do in a bunch formation? Often times in a bunch formation you have to pass a guy to someone else because otherwise you will get picked. So now you have Uzomah on Edelman? What about if they stack someone in front of Gronk so it is impossible to jam him? He would be a liability, and it is a bad idea. Belicheck would spot this and easily take advantage of it. Sorry, it is a dumb idea and one I would expect from someone who has no knowledge in how the game actually works other than watching it passively on TV.

...And another thing. If all you do is teach him man press that means every time he is on the field the defense is in man press. You don't think that kind of giveaway wouldn't be capitalized on?

(11-11-2015, 02:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: So what do they do in a bunch formation? Often times in a bunch formation you have to pass a guy to someone else because otherwise you will get picked. So now you have Uzomah on Edelman? What about if they stack someone in front of Gronk so it is impossible to jam him? He would be a liability, and it is a bad idea. Belicheck would spot this and easily take advantage of it. Sorry, it is a dumb idea and one I would expect from someone who has no knowledge in how the game actually works other than watching it passively on TV.

In most "bunch formations" the TE is still on the LOS.  That way you use the bigger player to create the pick or rub, or else you have him in front as a blocker on the bubble screens so many teams run out of that formation.  In those cases we could still use Uzo on Gronk. 

If they line Gronk up in the backfield then we still might use Uzo to jam the receiver on the LOS.  If it is Edleman then he will get crushed.

If we do check to a zone it would probably be a match-up zone where the defender sticks with the player that comes through his zone.  In that case you could still have Uzo jamming the first player off the LOS.

(11-11-2015, 02:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...And another thing. If all you do is teach him man press that means every time he is on the field the defense is in man press. You don't think that kind of giveaway wouldn't be capitalized on?

As soon as Brady comes to the LOS he can always tell when we are in press man coverage.  Doesn't matter who is in the game for us.

(11-11-2015, 02:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In most "bunch formations" the TE is still on the LOS.  That way you use the bigger player to create the pick or rub, or else you have him in front as a blocker on the bubble screens so many teams run out of that formation.  In those cases we could still use Uzo on Gronk. 

If they line Gronk up in the backfield then we still might use Uzo to jam the receiver on the LOS.  If it is Edleman then he will get crushed.

If we do check to a zone it would probably be a match-up zone where the defender sticks with the player that comes through his zone.  In that case you could still have Uzo jamming the first player off the LOS.

Bahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

Julian Edelman would love to see C.J. Uzomah in front of him on the field on every single play, each and every week of the year. If it were all this easy, every team in the league would pick up a scrub TE with some size and teach him how to play defense and jam these guys.

Is this some kind of joke that we're all missing? This has gone from silly to flat out stupid and absurd.

(11-11-2015, 02:55 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Bahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

Julian Edelman would love to see C.J. Uzomah in front of him on the field on every single play, each and every week of the year. If it were all this easy, every team in the league would pick up a scrub TE with some size and teach him how to play defense and jam these guys.

Is this some kind of joke that we're all missing? This has gone from silly to flat out stupid and absurd.

I have never seen Edleman lined up on the LOS in a bunch formation.

Have you?

(11-11-2015, 03:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have never seen Edleman lined up on the LOS in a bunch formation.

Have you?

I have never seen a regularly inactive rookie TE play defense and jam the best TE in the league or a great WR in any formation.

Have you?

(11-11-2015, 03:15 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I have never seen a regularly inactive rookie TE play defense and jam the best TE in the league or a great WR in any formation.

Have you?

No.  That is why I said the element or surprise would be in our favor.

But since you completely seemed to miss the point I was making, Edelman is not likely to line up on the LOS because teams usually use the larger receiver on the LOS in a bunch package.  The main reason is that the larger WR is usually either a better blocker or strong enough to get a better "pick" or "rub".  So that is why the Patriots would not love to see edelman lined up on the LOS in a bunch package with a 250 lb DB playing up on him in press coverage.

If Edelman was lined up isolated in space then he would probably love to see a 250 lb DB across from him, but in a bunch package he would not have the empty space to use to his advantage.

Understand the difference now? 

(11-11-2015, 02:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In most "bunch formations" the TE is still on the LOS.  That way you use the bigger player to create the pick or rub, or else you have him in front as a blocker on the bubble screens so many teams run out of that formation.  In those cases we could still use Uzo on Gronk. 

If they line Gronk up in the backfield then we still might use Uzo to jam the receiver on the LOS.  If it is Edleman then he will get crushed.

If we do check to a zone it would probably be a match-up zone where the defender sticks with the player that comes through his zone.  In that case you could still have Uzo jamming the first player off the LOS.

(11-11-2015, 02:55 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Bahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

Julian Edelman would love to see C.J. Uzomah in front of him on the field on every single play, each and every week of the year. If it were all this easy, every team in the league would pick up a scrub TE with some size and teach him how to play defense and jam these guys.

Is this some kind of joke that we're all missing? This has gone from silly to flat out stupid and absurd.

(11-11-2015, 03:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  That is why I said the element or surprise would be in our favor.

But since you completely seemed to miss the point I was making, Edelman is not likely to line up on the LOS because teams usually use the larger receiver on the LOS in a bunch package.  The main reason is that the larger WR is usually either a better blocker or strong enough to get a better "pick" or "rub".  So that is why the Patriots would no love to see edelman lined up on the LOS in a bunch package with a 250 lb DB playing up on him in press coverage.

The points in bold weren't talking about a bunch formation.

If you're going to claim that you were still talking about bunch formations in the portion of your post that I put in bold, then it's not my fault that I can't read your mind when I assumed you were talking about a different formation when you changed paragraphs and mentioned Gronk being in the backfield.

(11-11-2015, 03:34 PM)djs7685 Wrote: If you're going to claim that you were still talking about bunch formations in the portion of your post that I put in bold, then it's not my fault that I can't read your mind when I assumed you were talking about a different formation when you changed paragraphs and mentioned Gronk being in the backfield.

Well, not to pick at nits here, but it was pretty clear that the entire post was about bunch formations.

Unless you thought I would address the bunch formation when Gronk was on the LOS then completely ignore the bunch formation with Gronk in the backfield and move on to something totally different.

But at least, now that you know what I was talking about, I see you have nothing to say to disagree with what I said.

(11-11-2015, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As soon as Brady comes to the LOS he can always tell when we are in press man coverage.  Doesn't matter who is in the game for us.

You can press zone, if Uzomah is in as you describe then it is press man. There is a big difference.

(11-11-2015, 03:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have never seen Edleman lined up on the LOS in a bunch formation.

Have you?

They change it up. I have seen gronk in the back before to get him the free release.

Sorry Fred, still one of the worst ideas I have ever seen thrown out on this board (but it is still young).

(11-11-2015, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, not to pick at nits here, but it was pretty clear that the entire post was about bunch formations.

Unless you thought I would address the bunch formation when Gronk was on the LOS then completely ignore the bunch formation with Gronk in the backfield and move on to something totally different.

But at least, now that you know what I was talking about, I see you have nothing to say to disagree with what I said.

Well that makes it more clear, thanks, I honestly did think you were talking about a standard set with Gronk in the backfield in the second sentence.

Anyway, I do disagree with what you said because Belichick, McDaniels, Edelman, Gronkowski, and everybody else involved would just find plenty of ways to exploit Uzomah in the game trying to play defense. I honestly can't think of many formations that New England would typically run that would make Uzomah have a favorable matchup. You seem to think it's a lot easier than it is in reality to just "jam" a great WR or TE at the LOS.

Like I said earlier, every team in the league would be grabbing scrub TEs with size to do this if it would actually work.

(11-11-2015, 04:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: You can press zone, if Uzomah is in as you describe then it is press man. There is a big difference.

Not sure exactly what you mean.  You have to go man-to-man at the line of scrimmage to have press coverage.

No team in the league plays cover-5 where every single player is in zone coverage.  Even in a cover-1 or cover-2 "zone coverages" most of the DBs are playing man coverage.

The DBs playing man-to-man in a zone scheme can play "off" or "press", but I don't know how you would play "press-zone".

Oaky, I am going to drop it here. We can discuss it more if/when it happens. If not then I will just consider myself another under appreciated genius.

Remember that they laughed at Einstein too when he first said the world was not flat.

I'll let history be my judge.