(10-02-2021, 09:24 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Interesting, isn’t it? Billy Price’s PFF grades nearly doubled the moment he became a New York Giant.

Umm…no they didn’t. He was horrendous his first game with the Giants. He had a pass blocking grade of 8.7 and a 28.1 overall.

So in two games Carman has given up zero sacks and (I think) 1 pressure? And in those games the OL has as a whole given up 1 sack (arguably Burrow was partly to blame on it) and 1-2 pressures total. And Carman has two flags total (both FS?). Really makes the PFF grades look silly.

People really don't understand the PFF grades. They arent perfect but they are pretty good. They grade every play on expected result.

This is why Burrow is getting 90s. Carman and others are still underperforming scoring in the 40s and 50s but Burrow is still balling. The fact the line is giving up so few sacks the last two games is on Burrow and not the line.

BB they really do not make sense. Check the OL grades for our line and the Stealers line for the game we played them - notice anything unusual there? The Stealers are rated higher than us despite our line allowing no sacks, only a couple of pressures and run blocking to a 5 YPC clip. And their line allowed 4 sacks, a blizzard of pressures and hits and about a 3 YPC on the run.

I personally feel we can play both love the 6 oline 3 wr sets we are running gives me hope zac is finally learning. He also had cj as a fullback like i have been suggesting.

Probably but should be on a short lease

If the players are roughly even in skill you go with the rookie over the vet. No brainer here to keep JC in imo

I think you need to play the best player available at the RG position.It appears Jackson Carman isn’t that player at this particular time.This OL is really coming together finally.Playing much more consistent,and really starting to gel.They need to play whoever gives this team the best chance of success.Regardless of what round they were drafted in,or the over hype they received.

XSF is the vet.Play him.I think Carman will actually be good someday,but he’s not starting material yet.Hopkins is starting to play much better now.Carman is the weak link.

Really? Carman is just fine. DO NOT go by PFF - it is laughable when used for offensive linemen in particular. Carman in two games has not yielded a sack, only 1 pressure and has had two false starts.

(10-04-2021, 03:02 PM)Joelist Wrote: Really? Carman is just fine. DO NOT go by PFF - it is laughable when used for offensive linemen in particular. Carman in two games has not yielded a sack, only 1 pressure and has had two false starts.

It’s not just PFF, people that really know their stuff (Jake Liscow, Matt Minich, etc) have pointed out he makes a lot of mistakes. There’s been plenty of good in there too though. And it’s not like XSF was playing all that well in the first couple games. I personally think Carman has done enough to keep getting starts. But I guarantee the first time he gives up a big sack there will be people screaming to get him out of there.

(10-02-2021, 02:28 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: People really don't understand the PFF grades. They arent perfect but they are pretty good. They grade every play on expected result.

This is why Burrow is getting 90s. Carman and others are still underperforming scoring in the 40s and 50s but Burrow is still balling. The fact the line is giving up so few sacks the last two games is on Burrow and not the line.

I’m heavily interested in the NFL analytics community and PFF player grades simply aren’t very good. They have some really good stuff over there but their player grades aren’t one of them.

They are fun to look at though.

Liscow also said the "mistakes" have all been in the run game ironically. In the pass game he has so far been pretty much golden. And remember even Liscow questioned the PFF scores, pointing out that just because a given play may see Carman not on his feet at the end does not mean he did not do his job correctly.

he is starting on Sunday

Zac fully anticipates Carman going at RG Sunday vs. Packers.

— Geoff Hobson (@GeoffHobsonCin) October 4, 2021

(10-04-2021, 05:34 PM)pally Wrote: he is starting on Sunday

Zac fully anticipates Carman going at RG Sunday vs. Packers.

— Geoff Hobson (@GeoffHobsonCin) October 4, 2021

It's the right call. Props to Zac for not fixing what ain't broken.

(10-01-2021, 11:41 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: According pff he's a below average pass blocker, his overall pff grade is lower than xfs..with that being said I can honestly say that my eyes tell me something totally different..since we inserted Carman Joe's had some of the best pockets I've seen him have over the last two years,and it's been very noticeable the lack of pressure up  the middle since he's been starting..

The play that Joe auditables against a zero blitz everybody picked up exactly who they was to pick up if not for that than the play would've been unsuccessful..I truly believe he should be the starter from here on just interested in finding out what everyone else may feel about it..

PFF is a resource with limits.  They cool and all, but far from the "end all be all" they portray themselves as.  I've long questioned the logistics of their operation....Exactly how many qualified eyeballs do they have on "every position, every play, every game"?  How many qualified "analysts" are there in the world (that aren't currently employed coaches), let alone in their budget? 

The job is his for the foreseeable future. XSF is going on IR

(10-02-2021, 12:11 AM)bengaloo Wrote: I believe he has. Not only is he already playing pretty solid for a rookie 2nd rounder playing a new position that he has hardly played before, but its going to be reps and experience that elevates his game to a higher level. His ceiling is a lot higher than XSF. I'd let Carmen start and give XSF a few reps here and there to keep them both fresh.

What Bengaloo here said, Carman has been average but that ain't bad for a rookie starting at an entirely new position in the pros.

Should just get better from here on out.

(10-08-2021, 01:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What Bengaloo here said, Carman has been average but that ain't bad for a rookie starting at an entirely new position in the pros.

Should just get better from here on out.

Unless he melts down, I see no reason to move away from Carman. Let him develop under fire.

Carman needs to play. We need a starter. If he isn't that guy, we need to know before the seasons over.

As far as the line looking better, it should have. We played harder defenses when xsf was in. How Carman does against tougher pressure needs to be seen.

(10-02-2021, 02:10 PM)Joelist Wrote: So in two games Carman has given up zero sacks and (I think) 1 pressure? And in those games the OL has as a whole given up 1 sack (arguably Burrow was partly to blame on it) and 1-2 pressures total. And Carman has two flags total (both FS?). Really makes the PFF grades look silly.

Penalties - 2
Sacks - 0
Pressures - 1

The PFF grade is a bit misleading though unless you pay for higher subscription to see the breakdowns.
He's actually primarily dinged on his run blocking, not his pass blocking.
His pass blocking is fair, at 53.6.
I've never gotten them to respond when asked, so I'm not sure why he's been dinged below 60 (decent starter level) in pass blocking.