(10-12-2021, 12:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: I can't figure out if you quoting me is to give me props

Again I forget how simple things have to be explained to you.

You can't claim the team "ignored" or "did nothing" to help the O-line when we hired a new coach, signed the 10th highest paid RT in the league in free agency, and used a top 50 draft pick on an o-lineman.  You can't deal with actual facts, instead you just make stuff up to say to support your opinion.

Again, everyone got it but you.

(10-12-2021, 09:32 AM)jj22 Wrote: As far as Sewell didn't you guys say that there was no need to go all in on the oline because Pollack was the big upgrade? Why is it that he couldn't help Sewell knock off the rust quicker? You guys must not think that highly of him afterall.

How it started.

(10-12-2021, 09:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.

I have always said that we could not spend all of our resources on the O-line when we had so many other problems with our roster.

Try to keep up.

How it proceeded.

(10-12-2021, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If that was all that you cared about then you would have given the team credit for signing Reif, hiring Pollack,

How it concluded. 

(10-12-2021, 12:37 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:  It’s a lot harder than some think.

Some who made guarantees and told us to book it that Carman would start week one.... 

(10-12-2021, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no, that is not true.

If that was all that you cared about then you would have given the team credit for signing Reif, hiring Pollack, emphasizing the run game, and drafting multiple O-linemen.

Instead you said


Post Reply to Tim McGee's great idea (thebengalsboard.com)



Post Reply to Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase (thebengalsboard.com)



Post Reply to Are the Bengals better today than before free agency (thebengalsboard.com)

I do want to say one more thing. These were all as the thread titles stated before the draft. So yes, all I was going off of was the addition of Reiff and Pollack. Not "drafting multiple olinemen" as you threw in there. 

(10-12-2021, 11:06 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: These overall raw numbers?  or % based on times dropped back?

just need context.

Here are the Bengals numbers from Pro Football Reference (select the "Pressure" tab):

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm

145 passing attempts -rank 27
1174 passing yards - rank 25
14 sacks allowed -  tied with 3 other teams in 6th place for most sacks allowed
1.7 seconds PrkTime (Average time QB had in the pocket between the snap and throwing the ball or pressure collapses the pocket) - rank 28
30 times blitzed - rank 27
7 times hurried - rank 3 in least allowed
8 hits - rank 5 in least allowed
29 pressure - rank 3 in least allowed
17.9 pressure percent - rank 7 best to worst
3 scrambles - rank 30
6.7 yards per scramble - rank 22

So the Bengals are getting sacked on 9.6% of passing attempts.
They are getting blitzed on 20.7% of passing attempts.
Hurried on 4.8% of passing attempts.
Hit on 5.5% of passing attempts.
And pressured on 20% of passing attempts.  (I'm not sure how PFR gets 17.9% because 29 is 20% of 145)

According to this Joe Burrow (Bengals really since they have not played another QB) ranks 6th worst in sack percentage. They say 8.8% but again 14 sacks is 9.6% of 145 passing attempts:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing.htm#passing::pass_sacked

Some of that I think there were times when he held on to the ball too long IMO.

Anyway since number and percentages were asked for thought I'd help out.  Please forgive me if I messed up some math along the way.  :)

(10-12-2021, 12:42 PM)jj22 Wrote: How it started.

(10-12-2021, 12:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: How it proceeded.

(10-12-2021, 12:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: How it concluded. 

This makes no sense at all.


You first claimed that I said we did not need Sewell just because we hired Pollack, then you post a quote from me that proves you were 100% wrong because I mentioned much more than Pollack.

So what are you even trying to say here?

(10-12-2021, 12:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Some who made guarantees and told us to book it that Carman would start week one.... 

No one is 100% on their predictions.

(10-12-2021, 12:55 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Here are the Bengals numbers from Pro Football Reference:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm

145 passing attempts -rank 27
1174 passing yards - rank 25
14 sacks allowed -  tied with 3 other teams in 6th place for most sacks allowed
1.7 seconds PrkTime (Average time QB had in the pocket between the snap and throwing the ball or pressure collapses the pocket) - rank 28
30 times blitzed - rank 27
7 times hurried - rank 3
8 hits - rank 5
29 pressure - rank 3
17.9 pressure percent - rank 7
3 scrambles - rank 30
6.7 yards per scramble - rank 22

So the Bengals are getting sacked on 9.6% of passing attempts.
They are getting blitzed on 20.7% of passing attempts.
Hurried on 4.8% of passing attempts.
Hit on 5.5% of passing attempts.
And pressured on 20% of passing attempts.  (I'm not sure how PFR gets 17.9% because 29 is 20% of 145)

According to this Joe Burrow (Bengals really since they have not played another QB) ranks 6th worst in sack percentage. They say 8.8% but again 14 sacks is 9.6% of 145 passing attempts:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing.htm#passing::pass_sacked

Some of that I think there were times when he held on to the ball too long IMO.

Anyway since number and percentages were asked for thought I'd help out.  Please forgive me if I messed up some math along the way.  :)

Don't know if you missed it (I almost did), but the "advanced passing stats" (hurries, hits, pressures, pressure %) are all just through the first 4 games.

(10-12-2021, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This makes no sense at all.


You first claimed that I said we did not need Sewell just because we hired Pollack, then you post a quote from me that proves you were 100% wrong because I mentioned much more than Pollack.

So what are you even trying to say here?

See page 15. For one I wasn't even talking to you originally. But in words you should be familiar with. The case is closed. 

(10-12-2021, 12:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know if you missed it (I almost did), but the "advanced passing stats" (hurries, hits, pressures, pressure %) are all just through the first 4 games.

Yeah kind of confusing because in those stats it shows 5 games played.  But I see where they said updates Wednesday.  But we can extract a little info from the game 5 stats available.

Burrow passed 38 times Sunday and was sacked 3 times.  CBS is showing a sack attributed to Barnes, Smith and .5 sacks to two other players. 

So 183 passing attempts, 17 total sacks.  9.3 sack percent.    

Edit: Also 7 QB hits according to the Athletic stats:

https://theathletic.com/nfl/boxscore/?id=17748

So 15 total hits now making it 8.2% per attempt.

Well, to stay on track, it's good to hear Joe's okay. I'm sure he'll be out there Sunday 100%. In the meantime, this thread has turned into quite the debate regarding QB sneaks...

(10-12-2021, 01:25 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Well, to stay on track, it's good to hear Joe's okay.

Yep, that's the most important thing. 

(10-12-2021, 12:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No one is 100% on their predictions.

This is really the one post I agree most with in this entire back and forth, and it really is that simple.

I think most of "Team Sewell" underestimated Chase's impact. Not his talent, but how much he'd be able to impact the offense. It's been a joy to watch.

On the other hand, "Team Chase" was wrong about Carman and Reiff being enough. Carman has sucked, and most of our sack/pressure numbers aren't good or even mediocre...they're flat out bad.

Now it's easy to look at Sewell and think we won that, but who knows how that would've turned out if we had taken him instead of the Lions. I personally think he would've been better with Pollack, but who knows?

Kinda silly for Team Chase to gloat about that anyway, because no one predicted Sewell would look rough anyway.

To wrap this post up, I'll repeat that I don't think there was a "wrong" side to this. We probably needed both players. Chase guys have gotten everything they possibly could've dreamed about with Chase, and for that, you should puff your chest out.

But to pretend this line has been anything other than "bad" is disingenuous, and frankly comes off as a phony take by people who don't want to give an inch to the Team Sewell side and admit that there was any validity to that side of the debate.

(10-12-2021, 12:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd check the dates of those articles (just a heads up)..... 

Cleveland is tied for 1st in least amount of pressures this year, with Dallas. Browns are also #1 in rushing offense. They're 15th in sacks given up, with 6. 




For whatever grades are worth on PFF, they're ranked 10th in pass blocking and 3rd in run blocking. 


For the FF geeks out there, their line is ranked #1 in pass and run when judging their impact on skill players. 
https://www.4for4.com/2021/w4/o-line-rankings-and-matchups-exploit-week-4

Football Outsiders has them ranked #2. 
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/basic-offensive-line

(10-12-2021, 01:14 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Yeah kind of confusing because in those stats it shows 5 games played.  But I see where they said updates Wednesday.  But we can extract a little info from the game 5 stats available.

Burrow passed 38 times Sunday and was sacked 3 times.  CBS is showing a sack attributed to Barnes, Smith and .5 sacks to two other players. 

So 183 passing attempts, 17 total sacks.  9.3 sack percent.    

Edit: Also 7 QB hits according to the Athletic stats:

https://theathletic.com/nfl/boxscore/?id=17748

So 15 total hits now making it 8.2% per attempt.

Not questioning your source but I just went thru our box scores of the first 5 games on ESPN.

Vikes...5 sacks, 7 QB hits
Bears...5 sacks, 9 QB hits
Steelers...0 sacks, 0 QB hits
Jags...1 sack, 3 QB hits
Packers....3 sacks, 8 QB hits

That adds up to 14 sacks and 27 QB hits.  Wonder why there is a difference between the two.

(10-12-2021, 11:48 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Not questioning your source but I just went thru our box scores of the first 5 games on ESPN.

Vikes...5 sacks, 7 QB hits
Bears...5 sacks, 9 QB hits
Steelers...0 sacks, 0 QB hits
Jags...1 sack, 3 QB hits
Packers....3 sacks, 8 QB hits

That adds up to 14 sacks and 27 QB hits.  Wonder why there is a difference between the two.

Because pressures and hurries are made up stats

(10-12-2021, 11:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Cleveland is tied for 1st in least amount of pressures this year, with Dallas. Browns are also #1 in rushing offense. They're 15th in sacks given up, with 6. 




For whatever grades are worth on PFF, they're ranked 10th in pass blocking and 3rd in run blocking. 


For the FF geeks out there, their line is ranked #1 in pass and run when judging their impact on skill players. 
https://www.4for4.com/2021/w4/o-line-rankings-and-matchups-exploit-week-4

Football Outsiders has them ranked #2. 
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/basic-offensive-line

Wait…what? This has them at 13 sacks allowed (and I don’t think the one against LAC is even counted in that yet). That’s quite a discrepancy…

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/stats/

Or is that just the # of sacks charged to the OL?

(10-13-2021, 12:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wait…what? This has them at 13 sacks allowed (and I don’t think the one against LAC is even counted in that yet). That’s quite a discrepancy…

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/stats/

Or is that just the # of sacks charged to the OL?

Just the Oline.