(10-15-2021, 11:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right, but like I said, he held his own against Nick Bosa of all people. Don’t be surprised if he shuts down Hubbard. Although, Sewell was even worse at RT during the preseason, so who knows.

And Bosa may be kicking himself a bit. The article is out there on the web but game tape study showed Bosa just did not try to use speed and/or stunt moves on Sewell especially towards his inside shoulder. Sewell made Everson Griffith look like Bosa just by using simple spin moves and aiming at the inside shoulder. 

(10-15-2021, 11:59 PM)Joelist Wrote: And Bosa may be kicking himself a bit. The article is out there on the web but game tape study showed Bosa just did not try to use speed and/or stunt moves on Sewell especially towards his inside shoulder. Sewell made Everson Griffith look like Bosa just by using simple spin moves and aiming at the inside shoulder. 

Don't sleep on Everson Griffin. He has been a Pro Bowler 4 of the last 6 years and has a sack in 3 of the 4 games he has played this year.

(10-15-2021, 11:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is not entirely accurate. Sewell actually held his own pretty well against Bosa in his first game. I’m pretty sure the Bears game was his worst, and tbf, they gave us fits, too.

Anyway, your gripes with Hubbard are weird. You expect him to be something he’s not.

My gripe is that you need 2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer.but Hubbard 
His strength is run stoppage.
But ironically Hubbard in his rookie year showed
He could bring the QB down.
Since then his sack % is way down. 
Last year I.was told with better talents around Hubbard his sack numbers would increase.
5 games in I havent seen Hubbard improve 
On his ability to finish the QB. 
Who is going to pick.up the slack when Trey
Has a stretch of games when he cant finish the QB?
Cant depend on.Sam Hubbard. 

(10-16-2021, 01:05 AM)impactplaya Wrote: My gripe is that you need 2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer.but Hubbard 
His strength is run stoppage.
But ironically Hubbard in his rookie year showed
He could bring the QB down.
Since then his sack % is way down. 
Last year I.was told with better talents around Hubbard his sack numbers would increase.
5 games in I havent seen Hubbard improve 
On his ability to finish the QB. 
Who is going to pick.up the slack when Trey
Has a stretch of games when he cant finish the QB?
Cant depend on.Sam Hubbard. 

Ossai missing the entire season definitely threw a wrench into their plans. We used a top 70 pick on him, and we saw a preview of what he might become. If Hubbard is your 3rd best pass rusher that’s not too bad.

(10-16-2021, 01:05 AM)impactplaya Wrote: My gripe is that you need 2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer.but Hubbard 
His strength is run stoppage.
But ironically Hubbard in his rookie year showed
He could bring the QB down.
Since then his sack % is way down. 
Last year I.was told with better talents around Hubbard his sack numbers would increase.
5 games in I havent seen Hubbard improve 
On his ability to finish the QB. 
Who is going to pick.up the slack when Trey
Has a stretch of games when he cant finish the QB?
Cant depend on.Sam Hubbard. 

Of the top 16 guys that have created pressure this year, i have the team name listed and where their counterpart ranks.

Raiders: Crosby(1), Ngakoue(8)
Buccaneers: Barrett(1), Tryon(43)
Titans: Landry(2), Autry(17)
Browns: Garrett(2), Clowney(10)
Vikings: Hunter(3), Griffen(27)
Bengals: Hendrickson(4), Hubbard(37)
Chargers: Bosa(4), outside of top 60
Patriots: Judon(5), Wise(60)
Jets: Franklin-Myers(6), Huff(37)
Rams: Floyd(6), outside of top 60
Saints: Jordan(6), Turner(51)
49ers: Bosa(7), Armstead(17)
Cowboys: Gregory(7), Basham(55)
Broncos: Miller(7), Reed(46)
Ravens: Oweh(8), Houston(53)
WFT: Young(8), Sweat(27)

Of the counterparts, only 6 rank in the top 32. Hubbard is = or > than 9 of them. Only the Raiders and Browns have 2 guys in the top 16, with The Titans and 49ers just outside of it.

Point being, very few teams have "2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer". 

(10-15-2021, 07:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hendrickson just went against a 3rd string LT last week, didn't he? Did well, but certainly didn't eat him alive.

Quite a difference between GB's 3rd string and Detroit (or ours) 3rd stingers.. Our 3rd string Oline have been our starters the past few years..

(10-15-2021, 06:05 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Fixed it for ya.

Like others have mentioned our D usually craps the bed when it looks like they should dominate.

Doesn't matter who the coaches are or what team it is.

An opposing team's tattered line with beat up players and 2-3rd stringers should equal an ass kicking...  nope, they only get blocked like playing world beaters.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sewell plays his best game against out team.

I wouldn't say they were dominant against Green Bay, but there is a reason GB puts up 30 burgers at will against just about every NFL team.  They were held to 22 points in regulation and Rogers was sacked twice.  That game isn't on the defense.  Not saying that you said it was, but they had a really good game against Green Bay.  Before everyone throws out the stats about Adams and a 100 yard rusher, Adams was targeted something ridiculous like 16 times and their RB had next to nothing outside that one long run where Bell missed the tackle in the hole (but amazingly, was the one that tackled him way downfield.....talk about not giving up on a play).

Sewell will likely end up a really solid OT, but it was the "next Anthony Munoz" crap that drove me nuts.  He played in a quick-read offense in the Pac 12 that isn't really known for their edge rushing talent.

I still want Daniel Faalele from Minnesota to be our RT.  That man is so massive it is ridiculous.  He eclipses the entire side of the line and never goes backward (or gets stalemated) in the run game.  Spencer Brown was the guy I really wanted in the 3rd, but Ossai looks to be a stud if he can stay healthy.  Damn, can you imagine what this defense would be doing if he was?

(10-15-2021, 06:24 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yes the issue always there is we tend to play to the level of our opponents. Hopefully this time we actually exploit the weak areas of our opponent and FINALLY play a complete game.

For me, this is ZT's last chance as a play caller.  Either he puts up at least 30 points on them or I am calling for his play calling duties to be removed.  

ZT is a fine personnel guy, and I like the culture he has created, but being 0 for the season on the scripted plays and averaging the pathetic point totals we are seeing is embarrassing, and he should realize that.  

Think about this:  The 3 starting CBs for Detroit are all UDFA.  All three of them.  They have Chase, Higgins, and Boyd to contend with.  If he can't jump all over that shit, he should lose his play calling by week 7.

And I am not going to allow him to keep that as a ploy to save his job that he will turn that over NEXT year to Callahan.  We need to adapt NOW and evaluate if Callahan can do it.  If not, you're gone.  Sorry, we called this season no excuses and I am holding him to that. 

(10-15-2021, 07:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hendrickson just went against a 3rd string LT last week, didn't he? Did well, but certainly didn't eat him alive.

This brings me to another subject with the offensive line.  (Stay with me).  I think I have seen ONE holding penalty on the Bengals all year.  In the Minnesota game, the refs called three holds in the first quarter (I think) on the Vikes.  Then, as though the Vikes used up their allocation on holding penalties, they stopped calling it.  

There were holds down the stretch of that game that were egregious as hell not called.  

I honestly wonder if the Bengals shouldn't be coached to hold more than they are.  At least grab more, but try and keep in on the shoulder pads.  Every other team seems to be getting away with it.  I know Brady's guys are allowed to hold to protect Mr. Goat, and maybe Burrow hasn't earned that, but I see Cleveland's guys doing all kind of holds and not being flagged.  The league wants points, not penalties.  I think the Bengals need to be more aggressive with their holds, but let go before it becomes egregious (which, as I stated, STILL isn't called often....).

(10-16-2021, 01:05 AM)impactplaya Wrote: My gripe is that you need 2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer.but Hubbard 
His strength is run stoppage.
But ironically Hubbard in his rookie year showed
He could bring the QB down.
Since then his sack % is way down. 
Last year I.was told with better talents around Hubbard his sack numbers would increase.
5 games in I havent seen Hubbard improve 
On his ability to finish the QB. 
Who is going to pick.up the slack when Trey
Has a stretch of games when he cant finish the QB?
Cant depend on.Sam Hubbard. 

I love you, man, but you couldn't be more off base with this one.  

Sam plays a ton of snaps and is an ELITE run defender.  Think that doesn't matter?  What division do the Bengals compete in?  The AFC North.  Two of the best rushing offenses are in their division.  If you want to go to the playoffs, it starts with winning your division.  

Pass rushing is an opportunity afforded by your OFFENSE.  If a team falls behind and has to start airing it out, they become one dimensional and your pass rush can tee off on their QB.  That has happened zero times this year.  Defenses also need to put teams in 3rd and long to be able to truly tee off with their pass rush.  The thing I don't get is why we don't see more zone blitzes on FIRST DOWN.  Teams actually throw on first down more than they run now.  If you are able to force an incompletion on a hurry or even a sack, it puts the offense off schedule and makes it difficult for them to convert a first down.  The Bengals get caught a lot with dump passes on play-action on first down a lot.  

Back to Sam:  He is also a relentless player.  He never gives up on a play.  He is very intelligent.  He was forced to get Lawrence on a one-on-one situation where he stayed home on a read-option and Lawrence lost his footing and was tackled.  He should have been credited with a sack on that play and no one has been able to explain to me why he wasn't.  That was a third down that forced a punt at a critical point in that game.  

It doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but Hubbard is ALWAYS around the ball and has the pass rush opposite Hendrickson that we need, but the Bengals need to be more aggressive and rush the passer on first downs and not be so overly concerned with defending the run.  Maybe more so against Cleveland and Baltimore, but not a Green Bay.  

(10-15-2021, 04:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pretty sure everyone knew Sewell wasn't going to be the best from Day 1. The guy turned 21 just 6 days ago. Think about that. He was 20 years old, hadn't played football in a year, and is going up against Khalil Mack, Danielle Hunter, and Nick Bosa in physical matchups. He will play for 4 years in the NFL before reaching the same age Andrew Whitworth was when he was drafted.

Pretty sure people even said that if you only look right at the time of the draft, Slater was a better player right then and there... Sewell just had by far the highest ceiling.

Wouldn't bet against him next year.

Yeah, people are still angry over the debates this offseason, and it's leading to some pretty bad takes. People are saying it's too soon to judge Carman (and rightfully so), but here we are stopping just short of calling Sewell a bust 5 games into his career, when he just turned 21.

Cool, we get to see Sewel in action. Do we get to see Pitts too? Do we play the falcons this season?

(10-16-2021, 01:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah, people are still angry over the debates this offseason, and it's leading to some pretty bad takes. People are saying it's too soon to judge Carman (and rightfully so), but here we are stopping just short of calling Sewell a bust 5 games into his career, when he just turned 21.

Sewell was billed as the second coming of Anthony Munoz. If Chase was putting up the equivalent of what Sewell was doing, everyone on here would be worried and calling him a bust and saying we should have taken Sewell. Comes with the territory of such a hotly contested debate. When one plays well they will get propped up more than they probably should, and when one plays bad, they will get dogged harder than they should .

(10-16-2021, 11:45 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Of the top 16 guys that have created pressure this year, i have the team name listed and where their counterpart ranks.

Raiders: Crosby(1), Ngakoue(8)
Buccaneers: Barrett(1), Tryon(43)
Titans: Landry(2), Autry(17)
Browns: Garrett(2), Clowney(10)
Vikings: Hunter(3), Griffen(27)
Bengals: Hendrickson(4), Hubbard(37)
Chargers: Bosa(4), outside of top 60
Patriots: Judon(5), Wise(60)
Jets: Franklin-Myers(6), Huff(37)
Rams: Floyd(6), outside of top 60
Saints: Jordan(6), Turner(51)
49ers: Bosa(7), Armstead(17)
Cowboys: Gregory(7), Basham(55)
Broncos: Miller(7), Reed(46)
Ravens: Oweh(8), Houston(53)
WFT: Young(8), Sweat(27)

Of the counterparts, only 6 rank in the top 32. Hubbard is = or > than 9 of them. Only the Raiders and Browns have 2 guys in the top 16, with The Titans and 49ers just outside of it.

Point being, very few teams have "2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer". 

Wait, so you're saying the NFL salary cap means teams can't invest $40mil a year on two ends (OLB for 34 teams)?

(10-16-2021, 05:12 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Cool, we get to see Sewel in action. Do we get to see Pitts too? Do we play the falcons this season?

Not until the Super Bowl.  

(10-16-2021, 09:38 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Wait, so you're saying the NFL salary cap means teams can't invest $40mil a year on two ends (OLB for 34 teams)?

That's crazy, right?

(10-16-2021, 11:45 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Of the top 16 guys that have created pressure this year, i have the team name listed and where their counterpart ranks.

Raiders: Crosby(1), Ngakoue(8)
Buccaneers: Barrett(1), Tryon(43)
Titans: Landry(2), Autry(17)
Browns: Garrett(2), Clowney(10)
Vikings: Hunter(3), Griffen(27)
Bengals: Hendrickson(4), Hubbard(37)
Chargers: Bosa(4), outside of top 60
Patriots: Judon(5), Wise(60)
Jets: Franklin-Myers(6), Huff(37)
Rams: Floyd(6), outside of top 60
Saints: Jordan(6), Turner(51)
49ers: Bosa(7), Armstead(17)
Cowboys: Gregory(7), Basham(55)
Broncos: Miller(7), Reed(46)
Ravens: Oweh(8), Houston(53)
WFT: Young(8), Sweat(27)

Of the counterparts, only 6 rank in the top 32. Hubbard is = or > than 9 of them. Only the Raiders and Browns have 2 guys in the top 16, with The Titans and 49ers just outside of it.

Point being, very few teams have "2 starting DEs who strengths are rushing the passer". 

Good stuff.

I can't help but think a healthy Ossai would have impacted this number as well.

Sample has been really good in generating pressures for a 4th round pick, and he has the flexibility to rush from inside as well.  

(10-15-2021, 05:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think what confused me is you said "RG" in the OP, not RT.

Ah, yeah, I see it now... typo I didn't realize I made. Good catch, I meant tackle positions.

(10-17-2021, 09:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good stuff.

I can't help but think a healthy Ossai would have impacted this number as well.

Sample has been really good in generating pressures for a 4th round pick, and he has the flexibility to rush from inside as well.  

Yep. Ossai would have given them a bunch of options. Move Hubbard inside on passing downs and bring Ossai off the edge...etc

(10-15-2021, 04:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pretty sure everyone knew Sewell wasn't going to be the best from Day 1. The guy turned 21 just 6 days ago. Think about that. He was 20 years old, hadn't played football in a year, and is going up against Khalil Mack, Danielle Hunter, and Nick Bosa in physical matchups. He will play for 4 years in the NFL before reaching the same age Andrew Whitworth was when he was drafted.

Pretty sure people even said that if you only look right at the time of the draft, Slater was a better player right then and there... Sewell just had by far the highest ceiling.

Wouldn't bet against him next year.

He'll either improve a lot or he'll be too shell shocked to improve at all.. If Hendrickson trashes the guy today I wouldn't be too shocked to see him benched before halftime..