(10-15-2021, 02:04 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do I think Taylor is the best option for coach? No.

Do I think Taylor is a better option and knows more about football than Tony Pike, Rapien and every single poster on this board? Yes, 100% certain.

lulzies

(10-14-2021, 10:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd agree with that. The play calling is suspect for sure.

There are improvements too, lack of penalties (exception of one game) shows good discipline. They're now at least winning some. I'd say Minny beats them, and maybe the Bears, definitely the Stoolers the last few years. In years past, JAX is probably the only win so far. They do play together and play hard. Pike noted some of that too. I'd personally like to see him relinquish play calling duties and stick to the rest of his responsibilities if he's going to stay. 

They've done pretty well drafting/picking FAs. Now they just need to get the most out of those assets. 

Agreed.  And I think he clearly has communicated a vision to his players and they are buying in.   I think where he's been suspect has been initial choice of some of his coaches (partially due to limited availability), play calling - especially 4th down (though he did a good job last year - I wish he'd follow last years' script on that ), and being apparently rigid about what he wants to do vs. his very intelligent though inexperienced marquis players.

Love to see what would happen if Callahan took over the play calling exclusively.   He presents as really cerebral.  If that worked I'd be very happy for him to stay.  Except for the Sample pick and the Trey Hill vs. Trey Smith picks I'm pretty happy with the way we've drafted.   I'd also like to have had at least one other high level interior line FA.

All in all, I think the team is growing.   Hope he grows with it.   Play calling seems to be his consistent weak point

(10-15-2021, 10:34 AM)grampahol Wrote: That's what I'm thinking.. The entire team minus the coaches are all going to be in the probowl this year..

No, not the entire team. The defense has been a top defense in the league which is why we are currently 3-2. What does that have to do with the offense and Zac Taylor's play calling? With a top half of the league offense we are 5-0 or 4-1 at the worst and that has to largely fall on ZT.

(10-15-2021, 12:30 PM)3wt Wrote: Agreed.  And I think he clearly has communicated a vision to his players and they are buying in.   I think where he's been suspect has been initial choice of some of his coaches (partially due to limited availability), play calling - especially 4th down (though he did a good job last year - I wish he'd follow last years' script on that ), and being apparently rigid about what he wants to do vs. his very intelligent though inexperienced marquis players.

Love to see what would happen if Callahan took over the play calling exclusively.   He presents as really cerebral.  If that worked I'd be very happy for him to stay.  Except for the Sample pick and the Trey Hill vs. Trey Smith picks I'm pretty happy with the way we've drafted.   I'd also like to have had at least one other high level interior line FA.

All in all, I think the team is growing.   Hope he grows with it.   Play calling seems to be his consistent weak point

100% agree. Just let Callahan call the plays and see what happens. It seems he's a good motivator, and we see much smarter play from these guys. They've built a pretty good team, got some solid position coaches now, Lou seems to have made good progress, he just needs to focus on keeping all of that going and let his OC do his job. If Callahan, can't, get a new one....or just be gone altogether.

(10-15-2021, 12:07 AM)jason Wrote: For sure... Green Bay blows this team out last year. All of the really good teams we played did. Tennessee was the exception, and I honestly still don't know how we beat them. I figured they'd slaughter us because they got hammered by Buffalo the previous week.

I think it was a perfect storm and matchup.  Our horrible offensive line wasn't as exposed because their defensive line was horrible.  Having said that, we were lucky not to have given up 250 yards and 4 td's to Henry due to our own horrible d-line lol.  

(10-15-2021, 12:33 PM)TheFan Wrote: No, not the entire team. The defense has been a top defense in the league which is why we are currently 3-2. What does that have to do with the offense and Zac Taylor's play calling? With a top half of the league offense we are 5-0 or 4-1 at the worst and that has to largely fall on ZT.

In those two losses there is no arguing that Burrow didn’t throw costly ints that could have changed the game. Multiple in both games. Kicker missed a 49 yard winner. Plenty of other players made mistakes too. Higgins dropped a big pass/etc. So Zac had his team in position to be 4-1 or 5-0 (a team most of the fans around here picked to win 6 games or less this year) and the players failed to execute when needed.

(10-15-2021, 10:11 AM)TheFan Wrote: Looking at his terrible offensive numbers and overall record I would say he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. 

Again, it's not just forum posters, Tony Pike, or Rapien that are calling him out. Also, since when does a former NFL QB not have the credibility needed to be able to make comments about the offense?

(10-15-2021, 12:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: lulzies

I think there are better options for HC but I just always find it funny when the critics are people who couldn't manage a better record than who they are criticizing. 

Pike had a brief NFL career and has no coaching experience at any level. Rapien has played 0 football in his life. 

Again, I'm done with Taylor, and pretty much the entire front office but it'd be funny to watch anyone on this board try to coach a football team that wasn't pee-wee or high school level.

(10-15-2021, 02:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think there are better options for HC but I just always find it funny when the critics are people who couldn't manage a better record than who they are criticizing. 

Pike had a brief NFL career and has no coaching experience at any level. Rapien has played 0 football in his life. 

Again, I'm done with Taylor, and pretty much the entire front office but it'd be funny to watch anyone on this board try to coach a football team that wasn't pee-wee or high school level.

So what you’re saying is no one should criticize ANYONE unless they done exactly what the person they are criticizing has done?

(10-15-2021, 02:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think there are better options for HC but I just always find it funny when the critics are people who couldn't manage a better record than who they are criticizing. 

Pike had a brief NFL career and has no coaching experience at any level. Rapien has played 0 football in his life. 

Again, I'm done with Taylor, and pretty much the entire front office but it'd be funny to watch anyone on this board try to coach a football team that wasn't pee-wee or high school level.

I'd put my life savings on the table and bet i could adjust, real time, better than Taylor. 

I'm willing to admit that most don't know the hours and the thought that goes into making a gameplan week to week, not knowing what the other team is going to do, or what will really be effective against them on that Sunday--and that's after all the work that needs to be done choosing your scheme and designing your plays and figuring who is available to play and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Most everyone runs the same basic stuff, with little tweaks to fit what they want. I also know it's super easy to call design and plays with hindsight. 

But put me on the sideline and let me make decisions as it's happening and you better believe i'll do better than him. I've coached various sports over the years (and that doesn't come anywhere close to comparing to professional sports) and i know how easy it is to get blinders on and how fast things move and the game goes by live. It takes experience, even in coaching, before that stuff starts to slow down and you can see the bigger picture and not just the next play. 

Belichick, Arians, Reid, Harbaughs. I wouldn't even being to think i could compete with that. I'd be embarrassed right out of the stadium. But Zac, right now...?  MMhMM

(10-15-2021, 01:10 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: In those two losses there is no arguing that Burrow didn’t throw costly ints that could have changed the game. Multiple in both games. Kicker missed a 49 yard winner. Plenty of other players made mistakes too. Higgins dropped a big pass/etc. So Zac had his team in position to be 4-1 or 5-0 (a team most of the fans around here picked to win 6 games or less this year) and the players failed to execute when needed.

Again, see earlier posts as well as stats about how the play calling can and likely has lead to the offensive woes. The GB I'll give you both those into were on Burrow but I think the Bears ones (1 was a bad throw) but the Bears also knew exactly what we were doing the whole game. 

Players have definitely made mistakes here and there which have compounded the struggles and made things harder but ZT is a constant almost every game of subpar performance when it comes to calling offensive plays. If you think it's the players fault in every situation he's called plays I'm not sure what to tell you. 

We haven't been in a single game this season because of the offense. We've been in every game because of the defense. ZT can get credit for that side of the ball improving, I'm fine with that. But that has nothing to do with this thread. 

(10-15-2021, 02:47 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: So what you’re saying is no one should criticize ANYONE unless they done exactly what the person they are criticizing has done?

I think it is fair to be critical of the results, but the way some people on here post and the crap from Rapien and Pike make it seem like they believe they could do better themselves and that is just laughable.

As I've said several times, I'm ready to move on from Taylor but none of his harshest critics would do any better. A fair criticism would be that, "His record isn't good enough to stay in the league and there are better options out there." 

(10-15-2021, 04:01 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think it is fair to be critical of the results, but the way some people on here post and the crap from Rapien and Pike make it seem like they believe they could do better themselves and that is just laughable.

I’m interested to see where anyone said they could do better? I think you’re just being defensive. Taylor has shown nothing about being an NFL caliber head coach. Just because one doesn’t believe he’s doing a good enough job, no matter how harsh they are on him, means they think they could do better .

(10-15-2021, 04:14 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I’m interested to see where anyone said they could do better? I think you’re just being defensive. Taylor has shown nothing about being an NFL caliber head coach. Just because one doesn’t believe he’s doing a good enough job, no matter how harsh they are on him, means they think they could do better .

For the 3rd or 4th time in this thread......

I'm not defending Taylor nor do I think he should be the coach. I think it was time to move on this year to a more qualified coach.

That being said, there is absolutely a lot of posters on here that talk like they think they know more about football then he does and that they have a better understanding of how to run an NFL team then he does, which again is just stupid. No one on this board could manage an NFL roster, yet the "experts" on here know where the issues are since they read a tweet or a report.... it just gets old.

(10-15-2021, 06:40 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: For the 3rd or 4th time in this thread......

I'm not defending Taylor nor do I think he should be the coach. I think it was time to move on this year to a more qualified coach.

That being said, there is absolutely a lot of posters on here that talk like they think they know more about football then he does and that they have a better understanding of how to run an NFL team then he does, which again is just stupid. No one on this board could manage an NFL roster, yet the "experts" on here know where the issues are since they read a tweet or a report.... it just gets old.

Got it. Only criticize a little. Don’t specify what is actually wrong, Keep it general so others don’t perceive that we think we know more than an NFL head coach.

Rapien and Pike are far from alone in calling out Taylor in specific terms. It has happened before and started before this season even. His offensive play calling is suspect. They do little if anything to burn and defuse pass rushes. They give away the play by the formation. Instead of using formation, route design and/or deception to open things up they just line up and expect their players to win their matchups. Other teams do these things - ever wonder why we see other teams receivers running wide open in big holes in defensive zones? It was disguising the play and the route and the defense guessing wrong at least in part.

(10-15-2021, 07:27 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Got it. Only criticize a little. Don’t specify what is actually wrong, Keep it general so others don’t perceive that we think we know more than an NFL head coach.

Ahhh.. clearly I hurt your sensitive feelings on the internet to the point you wanted to stalk around like a prom night date that got dumped.

Got it, you are a football czar, so go apply for that head coaching gig and show everyone how smart you are. Meanwhile, I'll just treat you like the other troll Fred and ignore your dumb ass. 

(10-15-2021, 02:57 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd put my life savings on the table and bet i could adjust, real time, better than Taylor. 

I'm willing to admit that most don't know the hours and the thought that goes into making a gameplan week to week, not knowing what the other team is going to do, or what will really be effective against them on that Sunday--and that's after all the work that needs to be done choosing your scheme and designing your plays and figuring who is available to play and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Most everyone runs the same basic stuff, with little tweaks to fit what they want. I also know it's super easy to call design and plays with hindsight. 

But put me on the sideline and let me make decisions as it's happening and you better believe i'll do better than him. I've coached various sports over the years (and that doesn't come anywhere close to comparing to professional sports) and i know how easy it is to get blinders on and how fast things move and the game goes by live. It takes experience, even in coaching, before that stuff starts to slow down and you can see the bigger picture and not just the next play. 

Belichick, Arians, Reid, Harbaughs. I wouldn't even being to think i could compete with that. I'd be embarrassed right out of the stadium. But Zac, right now...?  MMhMM

I agree with a ton here. One thing we gotta consider here, with our limited scouting department, it's pretty common knowledge the coaches do more here than in most organizations. Knowing that, I think dude needs to let someone else handle the play calling because if all of that still holds true...he already has a shit ton his plate. Especially for a first time HC. It seems the vision for personnel and other things are very good. Haphazard play calling in offense seems to be the weakness of the staff. 

Look at the D. Just last week, they were put in perfect position to make a stop, Bell misses the back in the hole, he slips a second tackle that would've stopped a first down, and he's off to the races. That's good playcalling with an execution breakdown. We see a little of that on offense, but a lot more head scratching with the flow of the game.

Eh. We've asked our coaches to do more for a long time now and we still had better designed offenses. Hue Jackson's offense was well designed and did not give the play away by formation constantly - neither did Jay Grudens. Brat when he got stale started doing it and also not doing anything to get receivers open (just like Taylor now).

It's not asking too much for the play caller of the offense to show proper situational awareness or for the offensive design to not be so vanilla and to actually set the players up to succeed.

(10-16-2021, 12:25 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Ahhh.. clearly I hurt your sensitive feelings on the internet to the point you wanted to stalk around like a prom night date that got dumped.

Got it, you are a football czar, so go apply for that head coaching gig and show everyone how smart you are. Meanwhile, I'll just treat you like the other troll Fred and ignore your dumb ass. 

Nah, just showing how hypocritical you are about criticisms. It literally took me like 5 minutes to find 3 hypocritical posts, I could have found way more, but I obviously proved my point.

Clearly you can’t take criticism yourself, so it makes so much sense as to why you are so sensitive to how people criticize Taylor. The fact that you have ignore and can’t provide any logical justification for your hypocrisy shows who truly is the sensitive one. Hint- it’s you.

(10-16-2021, 01:07 AM)Wyche Wrote: I agree with a ton here. One thing we gotta consider here, with our limited scouting department, it's pretty common knowledge the coaches do more here than in most organizations. Knowing that, I think dude needs to let someone else handle the play calling because if all of that still holds true...he already has a shit ton his plate. Especially for a first time HC. It seems the vision for personnel and other things are very good. Haphazard play calling in offense seems to be the weakness of the staff. 

Look at the D. Just last week, they were put in perfect position to make a stop, Bell misses the back in the hole, he slips a second tackle that would've stopped a first down, and he's off to the races. That's good playcalling with an execution breakdown. We see a little of that on offense, but a lot more head scratching with the flow of the game.

Yep. On defense, the execution has been pretty good, on offense spotty. I agree 100% with the direction and personnel. Offense just needs to be more consistent and play to their potential.

After a while, with the talent on this offense, it just becomes more and more clear whether or not he's capable of running it properly.