(10-17-2021, 06:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Saying a guy is a generational prospect doesn't imply that he will kill it from day 1.

Yes, Chase is great. I love Chase. He's looking like the right pick, if I'm being honest.

Thing is, I don't like when people act like they predicted Sewell would bust when they really didn't, and nobody thought Chase would be THIS good from jump, either. Most pegged him for around 900 yards this year in the stat prediction thread.

People are salty over the long debate we had, so they're acting like they made predictions that they really didn't, and also slapping a bust label on a guy after 5 (now 6) games.

That's what I meant by "bad takes".

A number of people on Team Chase predicted that Sewell would struggle as a rookie.  I brought up a number of times that the chances Sewell even played at Bobby Hart level as a rookie were slim, and was emphatically told over and that there is no way Sewell wasn't an immediate upgrade over Hart.  6 games in and Sewell has already given up more sacks this year than Hart did last year.

On the other hand, Team Sewell almost to a man predicted that Sewell would be an immediate upgrade, and he isn't.

It's too early to say Sewell is a bust.  I mean, Kolton Miller of the Raiders allowed 16 sacks as a rookie but developed into a quality starter by year 3.  It's not to early to say that he is not the immediate upgrade that folks said he would be.  The need for an immediate upgrade on the OL was a primary selling point for Sewell during the debate.  

(10-17-2021, 06:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I don't get why we can't be excited about Chase being a stud rookie...while not taking pleasure in Sewell's struggles.

I loved the Chase pick, even though he was my 3rd choice. I'm ecstatic that he seems to be the real deal and he's been invaluable to the offense this year. At the same time, I'm rooting for Sewell to figure it out and start producing at a higher level because I think he's a good kid, a very talented player...and I want to see him do well, even though he's not a Bengal.

The draft debate was probably the most polarizing we've had since the Bengals took Mixon in round 2...

People are going to cheer for individual performance if it vindicates their side.

(10-17-2021, 06:51 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The bothersome thing is that this team still needs better O-line talent and play regardless what Chase does.

This team needed a both a playmaker like Chase and offensive line help.

I preferred Slater to Sewell anyway but I understand why Shake and others were "team Sewell".

My understanding in general is not that they were "team Sewell" but "team fix the O-line" which I agree with.

Chase just made more sense in my eyes because for the draft position he had the higher value...  again my opinion and not fact at the time.

I just thought Chase could make an immediate impact for targets that AJ was doing zilch for us and stretch the field(the chemistry with Burrow was an added bonus).

I'm not gonna gloat about Chase doing at the very least what I expected him to do.  He's far more than exceeded it.

The same with Sewell lacking on the Lions.  I didn't feel like he himself was the sole answer to our O-line woes.

There is still work to be done boys.

Appreciate you trying to see the "other side's" perspective. You're right. I don't think there was a "Team Sewell" side so much as a team "fix the o-line". I've always been an o-line guy. Always. Our Super Bowl teams had fantastic lines. 2005 was an excellent line. 2011 to 2015 were some really good lines. I would've been fine with trading back for Slater and picking up an extra pick. I said as much in April.

Right now we're winning without a good line, which is just a testament to how incredible the talent level is on this team right now. The problem is still there though. All it will take is one major injury to Mr Burrow, and then suddenly this debate will be incredibly toxic, but in the other direction.

So maybe instead of fostering a toxic atmosphere by puffing your chests out every week, we should just celebrate a 4-2 team, and maybe make some positive threads? Lord knows there's a lot of positive things to talk about with this team right now.

I'm glad we took Chase. It now looks like the slam dunk correct decision, mostly based on the surprisingly excellent play of Chase right out of the gate, and the other dude is struggling. I'd love to admit being wrong, although with some people acting like clowns, it kinda makes you not want to admit anything.

We've all been right on many things and wrong on many things. That's how it works when you constantly give opinions. Some on here fancy themselves to be football geniuses, but let me assure you...you're definitely not. None of us are. We take the best guesses based on what we've seen, but would anyone have really been shocked if Chase was looking like a bust and Sewell was balling?

If you know anything about the NFL, you'd know that draft picks can always go either way. Glad we got the good one. Wish we could leave it at that.

I just want this team this verses team that thing to be over. We are 6 games into the season and the picks are what they are. I think there were a lot of people here that would have been fine with either pick, myself included. Now it seems there are some people that want to jump in and say, "Told you so," every chance they get. I find it a bit juvenile.

From what I understand even the draft experts projected Sewell to be a great pick in the top 5. Many also projected Chase to be a great pick. The Bengals landed a great WR that seems to be on track for an amazing career and has been a game changer. I love it. Sewell is struggling so far. Great for the Bengals, not so great for the Lions. But can we just get over this "team this, team that," stuff now. It gets really old.. The draft picks were made almost half a year ago. Be happy with the player the Bengals drafted is doing great. But please cut out the I was "team this and I told you so," stuff. It's over, it's done. Move on and be happy.

I started off team Sewell, then switched to team Chase about a month prior to the draft. I'd have been fine with either, even though my pick at draft time was Chase, I just didn't want Pitts....

(10-17-2021, 07:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: A number of people on Team Chase predicted that Sewell would struggle as a rookie.  I brought up a number of times that the chances Sewell even played at Bobby Hart level as a rookie were slim, and was emphatically told over and that there is no way Sewell wasn't an immediate upgrade over Hart.  6 games in and Sewell has already given up more sacks this year than Hart did last year.

On the other hand, Team Sewell almost to a man predicted that Sewell would be an immediate upgrade, and he isn't.

It's too early to say Sewell is a bust.  I mean, Kolton Miller of the Raiders allowed 16 sacks as a rookie but developed into a quality starter by year 3.  It's not to early to say that he is not the immediate upgrade that folks said he would be.  The need for an immediate upgrade on the OL was a primary selling point for Sewell during the debate.  

I missed it by a mile. I thought Sewell would come in and dominate from day 1. At any position. 

Like you said, he may, and probably will, still turn out to be very good to great. I just didn't expect him to struggle to the extent he has. 

I think the Team Sewell fanclub were basing their opinion on
Sewell
On what "the draft experts" were saying about him
And not so much with their own.eyes.
I bet the Lions fans wish they had Chase instead of Sewell

(10-17-2021, 10:00 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I just want this team this verses team that thing to be over.  We are 6 games into the season and the picks are what they are.  I think there were a lot of people here that would have been fine with either pick, myself included.  Now it seems there are some people that want to jump in and say, "Told you so,"  every chance they get.   I find it a bit juvenile.

From what I understand even the draft experts projected Sewell to be a great pick in the top 5.  Many also projected Chase to be a great pick.  The Bengals landed a great WR that seems to be on track for an amazing career and has been a game changer.  I love it.  Sewell is struggling so far.  Great for the Bengals, not so great for the Lions.  But can we just get over this "team this, team that," stuff now.  It gets really old..  The draft picks were made almost half a year ago.   Be happy with the player the Bengals drafted is doing great.    But please cut out the I was "team this and I told you so," stuff.    It's over, it's done.  Move on and be happy.

It's not just the draft pick discussion, it's every discussion here any more.  Constant sniping at one another, petty score-settling, name-calling and abuse, it's rampant here.  And this on a board where we're discussing a 4-2 team that was one play away from being 5-1.  Maybe when the knives aren't collectively pointed at the team they'll inevitably be pointed at other posters, I guess.  Whatever it is, people just need to cut that shit out already.  This is supposed to be a pleasant diversion from life.

Most of Team Sewell was just 'team get a better line.'

People rooting for Sewell to not be good are only acknowledging the fact that we still haven't improved the line.

(10-17-2021, 11:27 PM)Benton Wrote: Most of Team Sewell was just 'team get a better line.'

People rooting for Sewell to not be good are only acknowledging the fact that we still haven't improved the line.

They have improved the OL though. They still have work to do, but it’s moving in the right direction. The run game is much better, and they only gave up 1 sack again today (the other one was 100% on Burrow).

That’s not bad considering we were rotating guys in and out at C and RG.

(10-17-2021, 11:27 PM)Benton Wrote: Most of Team Sewell was just 'team get a better line.'

People rooting for Sewell to not be good are only acknowledging the fact that we still haven't improved the line.

Everyone was "team get a better OL".  Team Sewell would routinely shout down plans to improve the OL that didn't involve drafting Sewell, however.

Pointing out that Sewell has been bad is not the same as "rooting for Sewell to not be good".  That's the same as saying people who point out the OL's struggles are rooting for them to fail because they didn't get the guy they wanted in the 1st.  

(10-17-2021, 11:59 PM)Whatever Wrote: Everyone was "team get a better OL".  Team Sewell would routinely shout down plans to improve the OL that didn't involve drafting Sewell, however.

Pointing out that Sewell has been bad is not the same as "rooting for Sewell to not be good".  That's the same as saying people who point out the OL's struggles are rooting for them to fail because they didn't get the guy they wanted in the 1st.  

To the bold, that may be fair. Overall, though, I think people that weren't "team chase" or "team that te who hasn't done anything" were lumped in to "team sewell". 

Which wasn't really the point. A lot of folks just wanted a better line before we got a better TE or WR.

(10-17-2021, 11:27 PM)Benton Wrote: Most of Team Sewell was just 'team get a better line.'

People rooting for Sewell to not be good are only acknowledging the fact that we still haven't improved the line.

One year ago we had Jonah, Mike Jordan, Hopkins, Alex Redmond and Bobby Hart starting against the Colts.  We haven't improved the line is the laziest take in the universe.

(10-18-2021, 12:33 AM)MickMack Wrote: One year ago we had Jonah, Mike Jordan, Hopkins, Alex Redmond and Bobby Hart starting against the Colts.  We haven't improved the line is the laziest take in the universe.

Yep. But people just keep saying it. 

Mind bottling.

(10-18-2021, 12:33 AM)MickMack Wrote: One year ago we had Jonah, Mike Jordan, Hopkins, Alex Redmond and Bobby Hart starting against the Colts.  We haven't improved the line is the laziest take in the universe.

It really is just downright disingenuous, isn’t it? I don’t understand why we can’t be happy about the improvement, while simultaneously acknowledging there’s still work to do.

(10-18-2021, 12:14 AM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, that may be fair. Overall, though, I think people that weren't "team chase" or "team that te who hasn't done anything" were lumped in to "team sewell". 

Which wasn't really the point. A lot of folks just wanted a better line before we got a better TE or WR.

Slater had his fans, though they were in the vast minority.  There were also those who wanted a trade down.

I understand people prioritizing the OL.  I mean, I was actually Team Sewell early in the draft process.  However, the more I looked at him, the more I saw a guy with an insanely high ceiling, but a low floor.  Kid has Jonathan Ogden type potential, but he was a guy that was able to cruise by on pure talent and physical gifts against inferior competition.  I had him as a boom/bust type guy.  Chase, on the other hand, I had as a very safe pick and the more I looked at him, the better he looked as a prospect.  He had insane production at a very young age in the SEC.  He had off the chart measurables.  He had an ultra competitive alpha personality.  Kid played tough and physical and wouldn't get bullied in the AFCN.  There's a ridiculous line of top flight NFL WR's from LSU including his teammate Justin Jefferson that he outproduced in college.  The Burrow connection.  I had supreme confidence in him being able to come in and immediately play at a high level and develop into a franchise cornerstone type player, but the kid has blown my early expectations out of the water.

Last year, this was a team that it was painfully obvious had held onto it's cornerstone players too long.  We needed new ones and had to get that kind of player at 5 to team with Burrow and Bates.  Chase looks like that kind of guy so far.  On top of that, Wilson has stepped up in a big way and Hendrickson and Awuzie have that kind of look to them.  It's certainly fair to say we need some more pieces on the OL, but the team definitely seems to have had a great off-season.

Let's remember (and the posts are in the forum) that this whole thing got out of hand when SOME (not all) of "Team Sewell" got condescending, insulting and borderline abusive to other forum members (about the only word missing was "idiot"). The mods did a commendable job of getting things reined back in but some hard feelings no doubt linger.

Regarding Sewell (and having seen him in a full live game) I have a feeling his future is going to be as a Pro Bowl caliber Guard. What I saw being exploited was his lack of light feet and slowness pivoting - which are not coachable things. He needs to be inside where pivot speed is not essential.

If this franchise drafted Penei Sewell
It would not be 4 an 2-with a chance to be 5 and 2.
This team would be 2 and 4 at best

(10-18-2021, 01:17 AM)Joelist Wrote: Let's remember (and the posts are in the forum) that this whole thing got out of hand when SOME (not all) of "Team Sewell" got condescending, insulting and borderline abusive to other forum members (about the only word missing was "idiot"). The mods did a commendable job of getting things reined back in but some hard feelings no doubt linger.

Regarding Sewell (and having seen him in a full live game) I have a feeling his future is going to be as a Pro Bowl caliber Guard. What I saw being exploited was his lack of light feet and slowness pivoting - which are not coachable things. He needs to be inside where pivot speed is not essential.

Sewell has a bright future with good coaching. He’s 20 or 21 right now and needs some work, but he’s a gifted athlete and you can’t count them out

(10-17-2021, 10:09 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think the Team Sewell fanclub were basing their opinion on
Sewell
On what "the draft experts" were saying about him
And not so much with their own.eyes.
I bet the Lions fans wish they had Chase instead of Sewell

Plus Team Sewell (and all of us really) were still reeling from watching our QB get his knee tore up due to a crappy o-line, so very understandable that one of the best o-line prospects in a long time would be coveted.

But IMO you just don't burn a top 5 pick on an OL when you have the potential to get a game changer.  I've said it before and will continue to say it, how many TD's is one OL going to be directly responsible for throughout the year?