FYI the Bengals can save around 20 million dollars in cap next season if they cut Tray Wayne's(11 million), Trey Hopkins (6 million), Xaiver su fulia (3 million), and Sam Perine( 1million). So that should be enough to cover Bates salary.

(10-21-2021, 03:00 PM)J24 Wrote: FYI the Bengals can save around 20 million dollars in cap next season if they cut Tray Wayne's(11 million), Trey Hopkins (6 million), Xaiver su fulia (3 million), and Sam Perine( 1million). So that should be enough to cover Bates salary.

Except that they have to replace all those people.

(10-21-2021, 03:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Except that they have to replace all those people.

Oh no how are we going to replace a always injured CB, a bad Center, a backup Guard, and our 3rd string RB.  

(10-21-2021, 04:03 PM)J24 Wrote: Oh no how are we going to replace a always injured CB, a bad Center, a backup Guard, and our 3rd string RB.  

Hopefully with better players, who are going to cost more.....

(10-21-2021, 04:13 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Hopefully with better players, who are going to cost more.....

Or draft picks  or with players already on our roster.
Wayne's - first RD pick
Hopkins-  top 100 pick
Fulia- Carmen
Perine- Evans

(10-21-2021, 04:19 PM)J24 Wrote: Or draft picks

So you think we can get a starting corner, a starting center, a starting guard and a 2nd string RB all out of one draft? Ok...

(10-21-2021, 04:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So you think we can get a starting corner, a starting center, a starting guard and a 2nd string RB all out of one draft? Ok...

Fulia has already been replaced by Carmen so he isn't a starting Guard any more and Evans as already replaced Perine as a 3rd down back.

As for Waynes and Hopkins- Yeah I think they can replace both players in the draft. Neither are that impressive, both are overpaid,  and Bates will be harder to replace than either/both of them.

(10-21-2021, 04:32 PM)J24 Wrote: Fulia has already been replaced by Carmen so he isn't a starting Guard any more and Evans as already replaced Perine as a 3rd down back.

As for Waynes and Hopkins- Yeah I think they can replace both players in the draft. Neither are that impressive, both are overpaid,  and Bates will be harder to replace than either/both of them.

Evans played because Perine could not. He has not surpassed Perine on the depth chart.

(10-21-2021, 04:47 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Evans played because Perine could not. He has not surpassed Perine on the depth chart.

Perine has been Wally pipped.

(10-21-2021, 05:05 PM)J24 Wrote: Perine has been Wally pipped.

We'll see Sunday I guess...

I figure they'll find a way, either this offseason or next. I tend to believe that a lot of trends believed to be reflective of organizational philosophy are instead reflective of circumstance (perhaps moderated by organizational philosophy). We heard for years that the Bengals don't spend first round picks on the interior offensive line, only to see Kevin Zeitler and Billy Price as two IOL first round picks in the same decade. "They don't spend big on safeties" probably reflects [mostly] the fact that they haven't had a safety worth retaining for such a long time, or a free agent they've wanted/been able to land. The only example I can think of is Reggie Nelson, and they did lock him down for 4 years at $18 million in 2012 (not super comparable to Bates money, but also 9 years ago).

(10-20-2021, 04:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think it's an issue of top line number, more so the details of guarantees and when cash is due. We have the tag still but I think they will get it figured out, especially in an effort to keep as much of this quality D intact as they can.

This.

I think it will get worked out without using the tag.  Bengals really did not have a lot of motivation to give Bates an extension last year.  This year they can offer more than other teams and still come out way ahead because we had him for peanuts this year ($2.4M).  

Bates might be upset right now that he did not get an early extension, but that will all be forgotten if we make him one of the highest paid safeties in the league next year.

(10-21-2021, 05:28 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote:  We heard for years that the Bengals don't spend first round picks on the interior offensive line, only to see Kevin Zeitler and Billy Price as two IOL first round picks in the same decade. "They don't spend big on safeties" probably reflects [mostly] the fact that they haven't had a safety worth retaining for such a long time, or a free agent they've wanted/been able to land. The only example I can think of is Reggie Nelson, and they did lock him down for 4 years at $18 million in 2012 (not super comparable to Bates money, but also 9 years ago).

And remember when we would NEVER use a high draft pick on a TE?

Nelson was not rated as high as Bates is, but we did outbid other teams for him.  I'd say he was probably paid top 10 at his position or close to it.  Maybe $9-$10 million today.

Whenever fans mock the Bengals for all their "buy low on former first round pick" moves I have to remind them of Nelson.  We got him in trade for David Jones and Reggie was a hell of a player for us.

(10-21-2021, 07:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

I think it will get worked out without using the tag.  Bengals really did not have a lot of motivation to give Bates an extension last year.  This year they can offer more than other teams and still come out way ahead because we had him for peanuts this year ($2.4M).  

Bates might be upset right now that he did not get an early extension, but that will all be forgotten if we make him one of the highest paid safeties in the league next year.

The thing I don't understand is how do we come out ahead this year if we didn't end up spending all of the savings we got by only paying him 2.4M this year?  The Brown family comes out ahead by saving money but the team isn't any better off if they just roll that savings to next years cap.  If we are consistently 10-15 million under the cap year after year so we can roll it into next year's cap number all that means is that every year we are spending 10-15 million less on the team than we could be spending.

(10-21-2021, 11:11 PM)pokin Wrote: The thing I don't understand is how do we come out ahead this year if we didn't end up spending all of the savings we got by only paying him 2.4M this year?  The Brown family comes out ahead by saving money but the team isn't any better off if they just roll that savings to next years cap.  If we are consistently 10-15 million under the cap year after year so we can roll it into next year's cap number all that means is that every year we are spending 10-15 million less on the team than we could be spending.

We would have the exact same team on the field right now if we had given Bates an extension.  We would just be paying more for it.

I don't like to leave money on the table but most NFL teams do the same thing.