I do NOT think you can play Base Defense (Rush 4 and play man-to-man with 2 safety help) and beat the Patriots.  Edelman; Gronkowski; Amendola and James White win too many man-man battles and Brady is too accurate and putting the ball where it needs to be.  We saw this in last years Super Bowl vs Seattle and nothing has changed since then. 

If I were calling the defense I would spend the entire game playing exotic looking 3rd down defenses even on 1st and 2nd downs.  What I mean by this is...I would take Peko out of the game entirely.  I would have Geno MJ and Dunlap rushing as DL.  Then with the back 8 I would call all sorts of various blitzes and different rotational zone schemes with the DBs to try and confuse Brady. 

Now I know the Patriots will simply try and pound the ball with double TEs all day running Blount against such a defense but my question to you is....wouldn't you rather have the Patriots running game and Blount try and beat you than Tom Brady?   If you force them to run you have more chances for fumbles; more chances to hit a gap and stop run in the backfield or holding call that would be a drive killer.  Also the confusion would most likely lead to 1-2 int or an extra couple sacks to stop drives. 

I know such a strategy goes against conventional football but if the other team is better than your players man-to-man don't you have to at least try something different strategy wise to give your team a chance?  I have a hard time believing Brady would accept running Blount 30-35 times and NOt audible into pass plays out of frustration. 

Just my two cents.  What does everyone else think?  If we meet the PAtriots in the Playoffs should we play Base Defense or try something completely exotic like I have suggested.  

Well we have to get to the point to play the patriots first... So right now How to beat the patriots

Secure #1 or #2 seed

Win in divisional round of playoffs.

(11-13-2015, 02:21 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I do NOT think you can play Base Defense (Rush 4 and play man-to-man with 2 safety help) and beat the Patriots.  Edelman; Gronkowski; Amendola and James White win too many man-man battles and Brady is too accurate and putting the ball where it needs to be.  We saw this in last years Super Bowl vs Seattle and nothing has changed since then. 

If I were calling the defense I would spend the entire game playing exotic looking 3rd down defenses even on 1st and 2nd downs.  What I mean by this is...I would take Peko out of the game entirely.  I would have Geno MJ and Dunlap rushing as DL.  Then with the back 8 I would call all sorts of various blitzes and different rotational zone schemes with the DBs to try and confuse Brady. 

Now I know the Patriots will simply try and pound the ball with double TEs all day running Blount against such a defense but my question to you is....wouldn't you rather have the Patriots running game and Blount try and beat you than Tom Brady?   If you force them to run you have more chances for fumbles; more chances to hit a gap and stop run in the backfield or holding call that would be a drive killer.  Also the confusion would most likely lead to 1-2 int or an extra couple sacks to stop drives. 

I know such a strategy goes against conventional football but if the other team is better than your players man-to-man don't you have to at least try something different strategy wise to give your team a chance?  I have a hard time believing Brady would accept running Blount 30-35 times and NOt audible into pass plays out of frustration. 

Just my two cents.  What does everyone else think?  If we meet the PAtriots in the Playoffs should we play Base Defense or try something completely exotic like I have suggested.  

We have another thread where this is spoken about extensively but i believe in order to beat the Pats you
have to get pressure with your front 4. Don't blitz much, if your front four can get there and you have there
guys covered you can beat Brady. We have done it before and the Giants have done it.

No need to go completely exotic.

There are more threads related to the Bengals vs Patriots than there are Bengals vs Texans on the first page right now.

Just a fun fact for the day.

I think it is good to look ahead.  We are not just trying to win for playoffs anymore.  We need to be thinking of strategy now for the teams we expect to face in the playoffs. Of course, players should NOT be practicing these exotic looks during the week but our coach's should be thinking and hashing out strategy/schemes to beat Patriots now rather than later.  To me, that is the difference between making the playoffs and winning in the playoffs.  You have to think about the future before it arrives to prepare yourself.  I am sure most of you have savings/investment/401k for retirement, same concept here.  I hope coach's are getting prepared now and not hoping to come up with something later.

(11-13-2015, 02:41 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I think it is good to look ahead.  We are not just trying to win for playoffs anymore.  We need to be thinking of strategy now for the teams we expect to face in the playoffs. Of course, players should NOT be practicing these exotic looks during the week but our coach's should be thinking and hashing out strategy/schemes to beat Patriots now rather than later.  To me, that is the difference between making the playoffs and winning in the playoffs.  You have to think about the future before it arrives to prepare yourself.  I am sure most of you have savings/investment/401k for retirement, same concept here.  I hope coach's are getting prepared now and not hoping to come up with something later.

I hope the coaches and the players are preparing for the Texans myself.

The one game at a time, one snap at a time approach has been working.

(11-13-2015, 02:41 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I think it is good to look ahead.  We are not just trying to win for playoffs anymore.  We need to be thinking of strategy now for the teams we expect to face in the playoffs. Of course, players should NOT be practicing these exotic looks during the week but our coach's should be thinking and hashing out strategy/schemes to beat Patriots now rather than later.  To me, that is the difference between making the playoffs and winning in the playoffs.  You have to think about the future before it arrives to prepare yourself.  I am sure most of you have savings/investment/401k for retirement, same concept here.  I hope coach's are getting prepared now and not hoping to come up with something later.

I understand but its entirely possible the pats and bengals never play this season...

(11-13-2015, 02:49 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I understand but its entirely possible the pats and bengals never play this season...

That is entirely possible but i predict they play in the AFC Championship...

(11-13-2015, 02:21 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I know such a strategy goes against conventional football but if the other team is better than your players man-to-man don't you have to at least try something different strategy wise to give your team a chance? 

Thing is that the Patriots are not really that much better than us.  They have lost a lot of key players from last years Super Bowl champs.  This year they have been outgained by both the Steelers and the Bills in close games that the Pats only won by one score.

Here is how we beat the Pats

(11-13-2015, 02:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: you  have to get pressure with your front 4. Don't blitz much, if your front four can get there and you have there  guys covered you can beat Brady. We have done it before and the Giants have done it.

Brady is so quick getting rid of the ball that he can beat most blitzes.  In fact fining the hole in coverage is what he does best.  So we are better having those LBs back in coverage if we can get any pressure at all with our front four.

Pats have had to shuffle their O-line due to injury this year, and both Dunlap and Atkins are having fantastic seasons.

Still not saying we would be favored to win.  But I'd like our chances against the Pats.  I think our strength may match up well with their weakness.

What good is being 8-0 if you aren't allowed to dream a little bit?

It won't hurt anything for fans to have a little fantasy time together.






























So what are you guys wearing right now?

I agree that was the "old way" to beat the Patriots.  However, Pats changed their offense in response to those 2 super bowl losses.  Look at Seattle Super Bowl last year.  They tried the same strategy as the Giants and failed.  The main reason for their failure is that Brady gets the ball out of his hands much more quickly now.  Edelman; Amendola; J.White are all there to beat man-man or sit in zones and catch short passes.  This is not a team who likes to throw deep unless they have favorable man-man matchup with Gronkowski.  Its far too difficult to get pressure on these quick timing throws they use IMO.

(11-13-2015, 02:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What good is being 8-0 if you aren't allowed to dream a little bit?

It won't hurt anything for fans to have a little fantasy time together.



So what are you guys wearing right now?

No issue with dreaming a bit, but why so many threads about the Patriots, a team that we may not even see this season? I could understand a thread popping up here and there to discuss the matchup, but it's getting to the point where you'd think we were playing them this weekend.




A sweater and jeans, by the way. You?

(11-13-2015, 02:32 PM)djs7685 Wrote: There are more threads related to the Bengals vs Patriots than there are Bengals vs Texans on the first page right now.

Just a fun fact for the day.

Belphegor…. Sweet. 

Fellow BM enthusiast? 

(11-13-2015, 03:01 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I agree that was the "old way" to beat the Patriots.  However, Pats changed their offense in response to those 2 super bowl losses.  Look at Seattle Super Bowl last year.  They tried the same strategy as the Giants and failed.  The main reason for their failure is that Brady gets the ball out of his hands much more quickly now.  Edelman; Amendola; J.White are all there to beat man-man or sit in zones and catch short passes.  This is not a team who likes to throw deep unless they have favorable man-man matchup with Gronkowski.  Its far too difficult to get pressure on these quick timing throws they use IMO.

You wouldn't be saying Seattle failed if they ran it instead of threw an interception in that SB.

They would of won using that same strategy...

(11-13-2015, 03:01 PM)CoreyK Wrote: I agree that was the "old way" to beat the Patriots.  However, Pats changed their offense in response to those 2 super bowl losses.  Look at Seattle Super Bowl last year.  They tried the same strategy as the Giants and failed.  The main reason for their failure is that Brady gets the ball out of his hands much more quickly now.  Edelman; Amendola; J.White are all there to beat man-man or sit in zones and catch short passes.  This is not a team who likes to throw deep unless they have favorable man-man matchup with Gronkowski.  Its far too difficult to get pressure on these quick timing throws they use IMO.

I was saying that the reason we should NOT blitz Brady is that he gets rid of the ball so quickly.  Blitzing leaves a hole in coverage and Brady is the best at finding that hole and getting the ball there before the blitz.  Instead we need to keep the LB in coverage so there are fewer and/or smaller holes in the coverage.

(11-13-2015, 03:04 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Belphegor…. Sweet. 

Fellow BM enthusiast? 

Yaaarrr. A lot of stoner rock to go along with power, black, death, thrash, doom, and almost every sub-genre in between. I've noticed there aren't many people in the metal community that are also on sports boards. The most I seem to see is "I love metal, Five Finger Death Punch totes rooolez dude!!!".

(11-13-2015, 03:03 PM)djs7685 Wrote: No issue with dreaming a bit, but why so many threads about the Patriots, a team that we may not even see this season? I could understand a thread popping up here and there to discuss the matchup, but it's getting to the point where you'd think we were playing them this weekend.




A sweater and jeans, by the way. You?

In order to be the best you have to beat the best........First rule of fantasy land.  You don't dream about how to come in 2nd place.

I guess technically we should be dreaming about the Super Bowl, but right now the Patriots are considered better than any of the NFC teams.  So that is that is why they, and their hawt QB, get the most attention.   

(11-13-2015, 03:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In order to be the best you have to beat the best........First rule of fantasy land.  You don't dream about how to come in 2nd place.

I guess technically we should be dreaming about the Super Bowl, but right now the Patriots are considered better than any of the NFC teams.  So that is that is why they, and their hawt QB, get the most attention.   

You (sort of) brought something up here that is very interesting.

Other than Tom Brady being an obviously sexy fellow, why aren't people going in depth with our Panthers/Packers/Falcons/Cardinals matchups?

If we're going into full blown fantasy land, can't you people at least put us in the damn Super Bowl?!?

Blitzing Brady = Bad

Just like blitzing Andy = Bad

Both have such quick releases that they can easily pick apart a blitz.

(11-13-2015, 03:16 PM)Earendil Wrote: Blitzing Brady = Bad

Just like blitzing Andy = Bad

Both have such quick releases that they can easily pick apart a blitz.

Andy had his worst passer rating and overall performance of the season against the team that blitzed the most frequently.

Just sayin'.