The make up of the Ravens defense dictated that we use the pass to soften up the run instead of vice versa.

When we play a team with a softer run defense it will be as you suggest imo.

But before Mixon was injured he was getting too much of a workload.

(10-24-2021, 07:19 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: It think it was perfect.  The Bengals had to survive an initial onslaught of pass rush and Burrow took a lot of shots (that would be flags for Brady) but he stayed tough and delivered the ball on target.  Those early drops probably pissed him off, but he kept his composure.  

The wore down that line, and you saw it at the end of the game.  

There will be games where teams are all back to prevent big plays and have suspect lines where Joe will eat a lot.  And other times, he is more of an ancillary role.  

It's all about matchups, my friend, and they delivered against a division foe, on their road, that previously had their number.  

^This

Ignoring what is working to force something else is a recipe for doom.

Passing wore down their line by extending the drives and scoring.

We've all seen failed attempts at trying to run the ball to go 3 and out.

It gets the opposing D off the field and able to rest and keeps ours on the field to get worn out.


That doesn't mean they give up on running the ball the whole game but it does tip the scale more for passing.

(10-24-2021, 06:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I was upset that we didn't use Mixon more early, especially with how much they were blitzing and how often Burrow was getting him.

Mixon's a playmaker, but he also can help neutralize the pass rush and keep them in check, especially with our line struggling to protect Burrow.  

I'm not saying that we need to come out and run the ball into the dirt, but we only ran him once on the first drive twice the second drive, and none the third drive.

We won, but Burrow got killed. We need to establish the run game, especially with runners like Mixon and then also Perine.

It will get cold in Cincinnati, making it harder to throw, and we'll also need to control the game more when there other team's offense is clicking better than the Ravens were today.

Think Taylor sees it or am I wrong?

Hard to complain about a game where the running game was getting stuffed, so the passing game went off. 

Mixon will get plenty next week. 

(10-24-2021, 07:34 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: Since this thread involves the rushing attack, did anyone see Carman on Perine’s TD run? He shoved his guy back 10 yards and finished him off with a pancake. What an absolute thing of beauty.

Yep. Leverage and power. That is his top highlight so far.

Don't worry, Mixon will get his.

(10-24-2021, 07:29 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Ravens are THE exception.  The Baltimore defense is 3rd against the run but 25th against the pass.  Against the Jets next week I expect the Bengals to go run-heavy.

The Jets are crap so we could run, fine.  Still, id watch Burrow hang 21 on them before the half and then run the ball 75 percent of the time. 

Burrow and Chase are playong like gods in the modern NFL.  Thryre going to throw the ball....a lot. This is what we've sucked for years to get.  

(10-24-2021, 07:39 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Cannot take me seriously.........  so you enjoy watching Burrow get killed and you're ok with not trying to keep the pass rush in check by running the ball?

GTFOH.

Your overly simplistic method of calling plays is not how real life works in the NFL. Maybe sushi to a forum discussing Madden.

(10-24-2021, 10:11 PM)EasyPeasy Wrote: Your overly simplistic method of calling plays is not how real life works in the NFL. Maybe sushi to a forum discussing Madden.

Overly simplistic? 

Explain how I was wrong.

(10-24-2021, 10:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Overly simplistic? 

Explain how I was wrong.

No, you explain how you were right. "Run more" against a good defense playing to stop the run is not an argument. Show us that you have expert level football knowledge by breaking down the offensive gameplan as well as how the defense set up against the offensive formations on the first few drives, and then explain how you would have called run plays out of the bengals playbook to exploit and defeat the defense. 

As I said, you're comments here are too simplistic to be take seriously. 

(10-24-2021, 10:36 PM)EasyPeasy Wrote: No, you explain how you were right. "Run more" against a good defense playing to stop the run is not an argument. Show us that you have expert level football knowledge by breaking down the offensive gameplan as well as how the defense set up against the offensive formations on the first few drives, and then explain how you would have called run plays out of the bengals playbook to exploit and defeat the defense. 

As I said, you're comments here are too simplistic to be take seriously. 

When calling someone stupid, you might want to learn the difference between your and you're.

Defensive linemen and linebackers are responsible for occupying gaps, or holes, in the offense.

If defensive lineman and linebackers don't respect the run, they just rush upfield because they don't have to worry about a running back running by them.

Defensive coordinators can also call more stunts aimed at pass rushing because they won't need to stay in their lanes or control their gap.  It is much easier to use a defenders momentum against them to block them out of the play if they're running a stunt or anything that takes them away from rushing straight ahead from the defense.

There ya go.

I feel like overall, on the season, I'd like to see us establish the run more, but as has already been said ITT, Ravens Run D is excellent. Their pass D is crap. They were stuffing Mixon early, and Burrow was hitting his targets.

I like that we're flexible enough to go heavy one way or the other and be successful. Especially on the road at a rival. And especially with first place on the line.

Gotta celebrate tonight and then refocus tomorrow. The Jets might be hot garbage, but they knocked off Tennessee. And I don't think I need to remind anyone of a couple stupid losses we've had to the Jets.

(10-24-2021, 10:54 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: When calling someone stupid, you might want to learn the difference between your and you're.

Defensive linemen and linebackers are responsible for occupying gaps, or holes, in the offense.

If defensive lineman and linebackers don't respect the run, they just rush upfield because they don't have to worry about a running back running by them.

Defensive coordinators can also call more stunts aimed at pass rushing because they won't need to stay in their lanes or control their gap.  It is much easier to use a defenders momentum against them to block them out of the play if they're running a stunt or anything that takes them away from rushing straight ahead from the defense.

There ya go.

Defenses have to respect the run because the basic threat of a run exists. You’re correct that players control gaps but this doesn’t change if they don’t ‘respect’ the run. They have to play those gaps, otherwise the offense will have rushing success. It’s the same reason why run game success doesn’t matter for play action passing. Play-action is going to be successful whether your running game is good or not - the basic threat of a run exists. As soon as you don’t play your gaps is when Samaje Perine rips off a 50 yard TD on you. It’s also why you don’t need to set up PA; it is already there by having a RB on the field.

(10-24-2021, 11:14 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Defenses have to respect the run because the basic threat of a run exists. You’re correct that players control gaps but this doesn’t change if they don’t ‘respect’ the run. They have to play those gaps, otherwise the offense will have rushing success. It’s the same reason why run game success doesn’t matter for play action passing. Play-action is going to be successful whether your running game is good or not - the basic threat of a run exists. As soon as you don’t play your gaps is when Samaje Perine rips off a 50 yard TD on you. It’s also why you don’t need to set up PA; it is already there by having a RB on the field.

Players are responsible for gaps but they don't pay as much attention to them if they know that there's less of a chance that it's going to be a run. It's also easier to identify if it's going to be a run because they know that the offensive linemen move differently at the snap.

The play action is much more effective with a successful run game and if the defense acknowledges that the possibility of a run is more likely.

(10-24-2021, 11:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Players are responsible for gaps but they don't pay as much attention to them if they know that there's less of a chance that it's going to be a run. It's also easier to identify if it's going to be a run because they know that the offensive linemen move differently at the snap.

The play action is much more effective with a successful run game and if the defense acknowledges that the possibility of a run is more likely.

It's not. Players don't move any differently on play action because you're trying to sell the run. Defenders aren't standing out there, aware of the stats, knowing whether the offense is running well or not. They react to their keys and then what the QB is doing (extending his arm). 

To the point; trying to force the run and failing is only helping the defense because it hurts your down and distance and helps to predict what the next call will be, allowing them to focus more on pass rush. 

(10-24-2021, 11:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Players are responsible for gaps but they don't pay as much attention to them if they know that there's less of a chance that it's going to be a run. It's also easier to identify if it's going to be a run because they know that the offensive linemen move differently at the snap.

The play action is much more effective with a successful run game and if the defense acknowledges that the possibility of a run is more likely.

None of this is true, specifically play action being more effective with a successful run game. It has been studied in-depth and there is zero data to support this. Play-action is effective due to the basic threat of a run game. That’s it. Players have to play their gaps, and if they don’t, they get gashed in the run game. Here’s the study on it.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

If you want a TL;DR of the articles, here it is…

“ We have an ever-growing body of evidence that teams don't need to run often -- or run well -- to set up play-action. Play-action works for teams that run frequently, infrequently, well, or poorly. For the vast majority of teams, it just works.”

The Ravens were putting 9 in the box a lot. We were forced to pass and Burrow made them pay. Good offenses take what the D gives them and exploits it to the max. We did that today. We also broke their will when we busted through that stacked box for the Mixon and Perine TDs. Who Dey!

(10-24-2021, 11:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Players are responsible for gaps but they don't pay as much attention to them if they know that there's less of a chance that it's going to be a run.

This just is not true.

Players have assignments to stop the run.  Doesn't matter if a team runs the ball 30% of the time or 60% of the time.  The defense still has to defend against the run.

It is like saying that DBs will stop covering receivers if a team just throws the ball 20% of the time.  It just does not work that way.

(10-24-2021, 11:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.

Players have assignments to stop the run.  Doesn't matter if a team runs the ball 30% of the time or 60% of the time.  The defense still has to defend against the run.

It is like saying that DBs will stop covering receivers if a team just throws the ball 20% of the time.  It just does not work that way.

It's 100% true.

They have to defend against the run but, like I said, they're not going to pay as much attention to it if they know there's less of a chance that we run.  

Why do you think draws work sometimes but not others?

I think we need to see more Chris Evans myself and save Mixon for later in the year when we need to just beat teams
up in the cold weather. Just my thoughts on the running back use. Loved how Hopkins, Carman and Reiff blocked late for
Perine was just the way you want to close out a game in the AFC North.

(10-25-2021, 12:21 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's 100% true.

They have to defend against the run but, like I said, they're not going to pay as much attention to it if they know there's less of a chance that we run.  

Wrong.  Didn't you play DB?  If a team only threw the ball 20% of the time did you let your assigned receiver get more separation just because you thought they might not throw the ball?

(10-25-2021, 12:21 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why do you think draws work sometimes but not others?

Because sometimes they catch a defense in a blitz.

That is pretty basic football knowledge.  Surprised you did not know that.