(10-30-2021, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  He held onto the ball too long trying to make plays.  We all saw that here last year.

2.  LSU ran a lot of 5 wide.  Lots of the pressures were the result of the O-line just being outnumbered in blitz situations.

They actually gave up a lower pressure rate out of empty sets, which is one of the reasons they used it more and more often as the year went on. It helped mask some of the issues the LSU line was having in pass pro.

(10-30-2021, 01:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you get the point that he was the THIRD LSU lineman drafted.

He was the 2nd pick of the 4th round and the 18th overall O-lineman drafted.  No other team in the country had that many O-linemen drafted that high.

How many teams had 3 offensive linemen eligible to be drafted that year?

(10-30-2021, 11:33 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I couldnt agree more on retaining Larry O long term...this guy has brought a new presence in the middle that we need to keep in place along with Reader and the rest. Getting BJ Hill back would be nice as well. I predict Topou leaves as a FA and then we bring in Shelvin.  

Yes sir Kali. Ogunjobi is not just a good pass rushing 3-tech either like Geno, he is a damn good run stopper as a 3-tech.

Exactly what you said needs to happen, bring back Larry O and BJ Hill with multiple year contracts, let Tupou go and bring 
Shelvin into the fold. This is a great foundation in the middle of our trenches for years to come.

(10-30-2021, 04:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes sir Kali. Ogunjobi is not just a good pass rushing 3-tech either like Geno, he is a damn good run stopper as a 3-tech.

Exactly what you said needs to happen, bring back Larry O and BJ Hill with multiple year contracts, let Tupou go and bring 
Shelvin into the fold. This is a great foundation in the middle of our trenches for years to come.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but I wanna point this out... We wanna keep Ogunjobi, Hill, Spain, and I'm assuming Reiff. I want Logan Wilson to stay... Same goes for Higgins, Chase and Burrow. Jonah's gonna come calling soon enough too. How are we gonna pay long term top dollar for a safety?

I like Bates... I really do. But he was the best player on an atrocious defense in 2020. Is he the best player on that side of the ball still?

(10-30-2021, 04:36 PM)jason Wrote: I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but I wanna point this out... We wanna keep Ogunjobi, Hill, Spain, and I'm assuming Reiff. I want Logan Wilson to stay... Same goes for Higgins, Chase and Burrow. Jonah's gonna come calling soon enough too. How are we gonna pay long term top dollar for a safety?

I like Bates... I really do. But he was the best player on an atrocious defense in 2020. Is he the best player on that side of the ball still?

Wilson has to stay, this is a great question and not something we were discussing before the season cause Bates hasn't 
been great this year, Wilson has, Hendrickson has, Reader, Ogunjobi, Awuzie have been great. Think Bates will start to 
making some great plays as the year goes on but his dollar amount has gone down which is good for us. But if Bates is 
still wanting that top Safety money after this season he is kidding himself. Pay the man around 10 mil a year is what he 
deserves, other than that, sad to say we will have to let him go after the Franchise tag.

We know who we are saving up for.

(10-30-2021, 04:36 PM)jason Wrote: I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but I wanna point this out... We wanna keep Ogunjobi, Hill, Spain, and I'm assuming Reiff. I want Logan Wilson to stay... Same goes for Higgins, Chase and Burrow. Jonah's gonna come calling soon enough too. How are we gonna pay long term top dollar for a safety?

I like Bates... I really do. But he was the best player on an atrocious defense in 2020. Is he the best player on that side of the ball still?

He’s not even the best safety on the team right now…

(10-30-2021, 04:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s not even the best safety on the team right now…

... but Vonn Bell cannot do what he does best without Jessie Bates. That's the rub because of what Bates can do it brings so much versatility to the defense. 

(10-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Synric Wrote: ... but Vonn Bell cannot do what he does best without Jessie Bates. That's the rub because of what Bates can do it brings so much versatility to the defense. 

True. I definitely want to keep Bates, but I hope he doesn’t still expect top 2-3 safety money. What did Jamal Adams just get, 17 mil a year? That’s too much for a guy like Bates who’s really only had one elite season.

(10-30-2021, 04:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s not even the best safety on the team right now…

(10-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Synric Wrote: ... but Vonn Bell cannot do what he does best without Jessie Bates. That's the rub because of what Bates can do it brings so much versatility to the defense. 

True, want to keep Bates but not for Jamal Adams money as Nicomo says. 

Not after him not having hardly any stats this season.

(10-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: True. I definitely want to keep Bates, but I hope he doesn’t still expect top 2-3 safety money. What did Jamal Adams just get, 17 mil a year? That’s too much for a guy like Bates who’s really only had one elite season.

Ricardo Allen has also been playing well and we have to take this into account as he plays the same position as Bates.

(10-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Synric Wrote: ... but Vonn Bell cannot do what he does best without Jessie Bates. That's the rub because of what Bates can do it brings so much versatility to the defense. 

Isn't it different talking about our secondary like this?  We have solid safeties, and are improving at CB.  Where am I Toto?

(10-30-2021, 04:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s not even the best safety on the team right now…

I'm a big Vonn Bell homer. I'd been following him and Eli Apple since they signed with OSU as kids.

(10-30-2021, 03:17 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They actually gave up a lower pressure rate out of empty sets, which is one of the reasons they used it more and more often as the year went on. It helped mask some of the issues the LSU line was having in pass pro.

It would not be possible to improve pass blocking by removing blockers.

All it did was make Burrow throw the ball quicker.  That was the cause for most of the pressure.

(10-30-2021, 03:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: How many teams had 3 offensive linemen eligible to be drafted that year?

I'd say pretty much every team in the country had at least 3 junior or senior offensive linemen.

Best I can tell there were 75 rookie offensive linemen who played at appeared in at least one in 2020.  47 drafted and 28 undrafted free agents.  I am sure there were more who made practice squads or rosters who never played.

(10-31-2021, 11:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It would not be possible to improve pass blocking by removing blockers.

All it did was make Burrow throw the ball quicker.  That was the cause for most of the pressure.

That's not what he said 

(10-31-2021, 11:27 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: That's not what he said 

Yes it is.

He did not say 5-wide made the blocking better.  He said it reduced the pressures.  It did that by forcing Burrow to throw the ball quicker.

If Burrow is capable of making a bad offensive line look good then why didn't he do it here last year?  Why were so many fans screaming that we had to completely re-build our O-line to protect him.

NFL teams agree with me.  College O-line coaches agree with me.  The only people who don't are the ones who blindly worship Burrow and want to give him credit for everything.

I love Burrow as our QB, but some people here just go to far.  He took a lot of hits last year because he held onto the ball too long.  He was not able to scramble and complete deep passes like he did at LSU with Jefferson and Chase playing against colleges DBs.

While I like Bates and he is a good safety, he's not Troy Palasqueeler by any stretch. If he were picking off pass after pass piling up the INT's it would be a different story. I'd have to look at his defensive tackles, PD's and so on, but he is replaceable if he's just average in all categories.. Last year he had 15 PDEF's..this year? Gooseegggs, same with INT's. However the D as a whole is MUCH better, especially the Dline and LBs as well as corners which may explain his drop in production...just not as many opportunities..

(10-31-2021, 11:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It would not be possible to improve pass blocking by removing blockers.

All it did was make Burrow throw the ball quicker.  That was the cause for most of the pressure.

It also limits the blitz package. If as you suggest defenses more blitzers than blockers that means the defense is in cover zero and a quick slant can easily go to the house. Cover zero vs 5 wide rarely happens. 

Also 1/5th of Burrow's passing attempts were RPO another quick passing game. That puts into question your point of Burrow always holding the ball to long. In reality the LSU blocking stats were average at best. You can cling to the award but you have zero statistical evidence to back up your claim.

(10-31-2021, 11:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it is.

He did not say 5-wide made the blocking better.  He said it reduced the pressures.  It did that by forcing Burrow to throw the ball quicker.

If Burrow is capable of making a bad offensive line look good then why didn't he do it here last year?  Why were so many fans screaming that we had to completely re-build our O-line to protect him.

NFL teams agree with me.  College O-line coaches agree with me.  The only people who don't are the ones who blindly worship Burrow and want to give him credit for everything.

I love Burrow as our QB, but some people here just go to far.  He took a lot of hits last year because he held onto the ball too long.  He was not able to scramble and complete deep passes like he did at LSU with Jefferson and Chase playing against colleges DBs.

Right, he said it reduced pressure. Then you jumped in and said it can't make the blocking better. Which isn't what he said.