(11-08-2021, 11:06 PM)jason Wrote: We maybe have one elite player on each side of the ball.

I don’t see anyone CURRENTLY elite on either side of the ball, Jason, and it pains me to write that. I think Joe Burrow COULD be elite someday but right now he’s not there; the same goes for Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins. On defense, um, uh, ah, well, I’ve got nothing except maybe possibly Chidobe Awuzie who has the POTENTIAL to be elite.

Here’s what’s different about the competitive Bengal teams of the past: The elite players were on the offensive and defensive lines. Think about it. Anthony Munoz, Andrew Whitworth, Max Montoya, Blair Bush, Rich Braham, Willie Anderson, Tim Krumrie, Ross Browner, Carlos Dunlap, and Geno Atkins all played at elite levels and led Cincinnati to many playoff appearances.

The men in the trenches need to be elite but as currently constructed the offensive and defensive linemen are below average to average. That’s not going to get it done.

(11-09-2021, 09:14 AM)Benton Wrote: Which is also a good point.

I feel like we do ok at signing depth in fa, but not so much starters. 

Again, that’s changed since Taylor arrived…

Reader - starter
Bell - starter
Hendrickson - starter
Awuzie - starter
Reiff - starter
Spain - starter

(11-09-2021, 09:30 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I don’t see anyone CURRENTLY elite on either side of the ball, Jason, and it pains me to write that. I think Joe Burrow COULD be elite someday but right now he’s not there; the same goes for Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins. On defense, um, uh, ah, well, I’ve got nothing except maybe possibly Chidobe Awuzie who has the POTENTIAL to be elite.

Here’s what’s different about the competitive Bengal teams of the past: The elite players were on the offensive and defensive lines. Think about it. Anthony Munoz, Andrew Whitworth, Max Montoya, Blair Bush, Rich Braham, Willie Anderson, Tim Krumrie, Ross Browner, Carlos Dunlap, and Geno Atkins all played at elite levels and led Cincinnati to many playoff appearances.

The men in the trenches need to be elite but as currently constructed the offensive and defensive linemen are below average to average. That’s not going to get it done.

DJ Reader is absolutely an elite player.

(11-09-2021, 09:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DJ Reader is absolutely an elite player.

Reader is a good player, but not elite. Not a probowler or anything. We have none of those shining through on either side of the ball unfortunately. 

Hendrickson may be considered elite for awhile living off of his rep coming from NO. But after a year, he'll just be a regular guy too.

(11-09-2021, 10:06 AM)jj22 Wrote: Reader is a good player, but not elite. Not a probowler or anything. We have none of those shining through on either side of the ball unfortunately. 

Hendrickson may be considered elite for awhile living off of his rep coming from NO. But after a year, he'll just be a regular guy too.

Clearly you have nothing but some picture.... But I don't blame you. Bengals haven't helped your cause at all.

Anyway. I agree with majority of posters on here concerning "elite" players on the team, or lack thereof.

(11-09-2021, 10:06 AM)jj22 Wrote: Reader is a good player, but not elite. Not a probowler or anything. We have none of those shining through on either side of the ball unfortunately. 

Hendrickson may be considered elite for awhile living off of his rep coming from NO. But after a year, he'll just be a regular guy too.

Reader is playing at a Pro Bowl level this season though. He’s the highest graded player on the team (85.8), and was a huge part (no pun intended) of that top 5 defense we had for 7 weeks. Watch some of Mike Sans clips he’s put together on Reader. You will have a new found appreciation for just how good he’s been.

(11-09-2021, 09:30 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I don’t see anyone CURRENTLY elite on either side of the ball, Jason, and it pains me to write that. 

Since the start of the '20 season Trey Hendrickson is 3rd in sacks and 5th in QB hits.

If you don't think that is elite production then you are just being a hater.

(11-09-2021, 09:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DJ Reader is absolutely an elite player.

He's elite in the run game. He's just solid as a pass rusher.

(11-09-2021, 11:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Since the start of the '20 season Trey Hendrickson is 3rd in sacks and 5th in QB hits.

If you don't think that is elite production then you are just being a hater.

He's been really good as a pass rusher.
His run defense, on the other hand, is not great.
That's about the only thing I can think of that would disqualify him from being considered elite.

(11-09-2021, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He's elite in the run game. He's just solid as a pass rusher.

Well yeah, he’s a NT…

Anyway, Chase and Mixon are also both top 5 in receiving/rushing yards and TD’s. Top 5 at your position is elite in my book. And both are certainly on track to be Pro Bowlers.

There is a difference in being ELITE at what you do, and being a playmaker.

Reader and Hendrickson are ELITE IMO. They are some of the best at their positions. Because of the position they play, I think they can only effect the game so much.

Playmakers are guys that can change games. Vontez Burfict was a playmaker. Maybe not the best at his position overall, but he made plays during games that were absolutely game changing. I would categorize Jessie Bates (from the past couple years, not this year) as a play maker. Same with a guy like Troy Polamalu and Marlon Humphry.

This defense currently doesn't really have that guy. I thought Logan Wilson was going to be that guy, but he has faded the past couple games.

We need a balll hawking, turnover making, playmaker on this defense. Someone needs to step the hell up or we need to go find a guy like this.

(11-08-2021, 10:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I understand the logic, but it's wrong.

Our line is crap. Our TEs aren't bad. If we go into the draft all 'bpa or bust' and take a TE, were ****ing dumb. 

If it's your turn on the board and you don't have a need slotted there, trade out.  But just taking bpa pick after pick year after year, you're going to end up overloaded at some spots and barren at others. That's how we got to where we are now: set at skills positions, barren in the trenches.

We need a line. We're at least two seasons away from it. If we keep drafting guys like carman, longer.

If we take a skill player in 2022 because it's the bpa, were going to keep going down this road of 'wait, why are we stinking, we've got all these elite guys!?'

Not that I necessarily want a TE in the 1st, but Uzomah is a FA and that means TE is a position where we would potentially need an immediate starter next year.  We can't throw out TE in one at this point in time.

Ideally, you want to fill your needs in FA to open up your draft board for BPA.  This year, it wasn't really feasible because we had way too many holes.  Next year, it's a lot more possible so long as they do a few things(cut Waynes, pass on tagging Bates).

Trading down until need intersects value is a risky proposition.  You can't always just trade down, or at least not without getting ripped off.  You're also trading down for a guy you have as a worse prospect on your board.  Plus, we've recently twice traded down targeting OL in the first only to see our target get taken just in front of us, forcing us to settle for lesser talent because we were locked in on need.  

That said, I would jump on Lindebaum if he's there.

(11-09-2021, 10:06 AM)jj22 Wrote: Reader is a good player, but not elite. Not a probowler or anything. We have none of those shining through on either side of the ball unfortunately. 

Hendrickson may be considered elite for awhile living off of his rep coming from NO. But after a year, he'll just be a regular guy too.

I can't agree with you on this one. Reader has an elite PFF grade, he's (I'm guessing) one of the top 5 run stoppers on the interior in the entire league. Hendrickson has 8.5 sacks in 9 games. Those 2 signings were home runs.

While we did good by triple dipping on OL in the draft, the flip side is our depth room is extremely green and it takes time for prospects especially on the line to be coached up - and the XSF injury threw us into playing the rooks before they were ready. I'm hoping we resign Reiff and especially Spain and use Free Agency to get a good veteran RG and good veteran C so the kids can learn.

And we also need to take the entire RB room to school and drill them incessantly on blitz pickup and pass blocking.

(11-09-2021, 10:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Reader is playing at a Pro Bowl level this season though. He’s the highest graded player on the team (85.8), and was a huge part (no pun intended) of that top 5 defense we had for 7 weeks. Watch some of Mike Sans clips he’s put together on Reader. You will have a new found appreciation for just how good he’s been.

I'll have to look up the clips. 

(11-09-2021, 05:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I can't agree with you on this one. Reader has an elite PFF grade, he's (I'm guessing) one of the top 5 run stoppers on the interior in the entire league. Hendrickson has 8.5 sacks in 9 games. Those 2 signings were home runs.

I like the signings and agree with Hendrickson (I just wonder if he'll keep it up). Reader tho, I'm okay with but not as high on. But that could be the position (NT). 

Would you say he was better than Peko? 26 year old prime Peko that is?

(11-09-2021, 06:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: I like the signings and agree with Hendrickson (I just wonder if he'll keep it up). Reader tho, I'm okay with but not as high on. But that could be the position (NT). 

Would you say he was better than Peko? 26 year old prime Peko that is?

I'd say he's as good as prime Peko, and I was bigger on Peko than a lot of people were.

Peko usually chipped in some pressures and sacks in his prime, but I think Reader is probably as good or better as a run stuffer.

Peko was a way better Fullback though.

(11-09-2021, 09:14 AM)Benton Wrote: Which is also a good point.

I feel like we do ok at signing depth in fa, but not so much starters. 

More of the depth signings in FA was a Marvin thing. That's what he preferred.