(11-14-2021, 01:40 AM)Housh Wrote: Didnt translate to the field at all

Okey Dokey

There is no such thing as football IQ anymore than there is toilet paper IQ. It's just made up by people in the game or by pundits or whoever. You're either smart or not.. The notion of flipping a coin to decide the best or worst frankenfootball player sounds fishy to me, but heck..I'll play along.. Dave Lapham.. Smart as any I've ever heard speak and was athletic enough to play Oline for a decade in the league.

(11-13-2021, 02:13 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: TJ Houshmandzadeh plus speed = G.O.A.T.

Artrell Hawkins plus awareness = Hall Of Fame

Chad Johnson plus humility = entire career in Cincinnati

Imagine his ability to get open, great hands, toughness...and add John Ross speed.

Virgil Carter with Carson Palmers arm and Bill Walsh as his coach.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Dalton.

With either better IQ or physical abilities elevated he would have had 5 better chances in a row to win a Superbowl(s).

(11-14-2021, 11:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Virgil Carter with Carson Palmers arm and Bill Walsh as his coach.

Jon Kitna with Carsons arm.

(11-14-2021, 01:40 AM)Housh Wrote: Didnt translate to the field at all

Yes it did.

The claim that Hall lacked speed was a lot like the claim that Whitworth should play OG because he could not handle speed rushers.  Hall get beat deep by Ted Ginn in college and Whitworth got abused by Robert Mathis as a rookie.  A lot of fans based their opinion those incidents and never changed their opinions.

Hall did not start until halfway through his rookie season. Despite of that over his first 4 years in the league he was 3rd in PDs (with only one less than Asante Samuel and 3 less that Darrell Revis), and 4th in interceptions.  And he certainly did not get beat deep a lot.

James Brooks my favorite player as a kid having elite IQ could have been an all timer

(11-14-2021, 12:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it did.

The claim that Hall lacked speed was a lot like the claim that Whitworth should play OG because he could not handle speed rushers.  Hall get beat deep by Ted Ginn in college and Whitworth got abused by Robert Mathis as a rookie.  A lot of fans based their opinion those incidents and never changed their opinions.

Hall did not start until halfway through his rookie season. Despite of that over his first 4 years in the league he was 3rd in PDs (with only one less than Asante Samuel and 3 less that Darrell Revis), and 4th in interceptions.  And he certainly did not get beat deep a lot.

I wonder of people are only remembering Hall after his 2 Achilles tears. There's not a person in the world who wouldn't slow down after that. But before that he was never a liability against deep routes. 

(11-14-2021, 12:04 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I'm surprised no one mentioned Dalton.

With either better IQ or physical abilities elevated he would have had 5 better chances in a row to win a Superbowl(s).

I almost mentioned Dalton with a better arm, but I didn't want to start a Dalton storm.

(11-14-2021, 02:49 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I wonder of people are only remembering Hall after his 2 Achilles tears. There's not a person in the world who wouldn't slow down after that. But before that he was never a liability against deep routes. 

I was a huge fan of Leon, but he most definitely got beat deep several times in his first couple years. He settled in as an elite CB after that, prior to injuries though.

Btw, I went in with 0 preconceived notions of Leon. I don't watch college ball and wasn't familiar with his scouting report. Just watched him get beat deep several times and started to question his ability in that regard.

He turned it around though. Didn't he struggle with a Browns WR back in the day? Was it Braylon Edwards? I may be wrong on that part.

EDIT: I looked it up. Braylon put up 16-198-4 against Leon when he was a rookie.

(11-14-2021, 03:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I almost mentioned Dalton with a better arm, but I didn't want to start a Dalton storm.


I was a huge fan of Leon, but he most definitely got beat deep several times in his first couple years. He settled in as an elite CB after that, prior to injuries though.

Btw, I went in with 0 preconceived notions of Leon. I don't watch college ball and wasn't familiar with his scouting report. Just watched him get beat deep several times and started to question his ability in that regard.

He turned it around though. Didn't he struggle with a Browns WR back in the day? Was it Braylon Edwards? I may be wrong on that part.

EDIT: I looked it up. Braylon put up 16-198-4 against Leon when he was a rookie.

I don't remember that, but I was still in school at that time. I don't watch any cfb so I never a players supposed skill set until scouting reports start coming out. It's sad that the most memorable play of Halls for me is the ball he tipped that Stokely caught for a game winning td. 

(11-14-2021, 03:57 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I don't remember that, but I was still in school at that time. I don't watch any cfb so I never a players supposed skill set until scouting reports start coming out. It's sad that the most memorable play of Halls for me is the ball he tipped that Stokely caught for a game winning td. 

Leon sealed a must win game with a pick 6 vs the Steelers in 2012... Pretty sure he scored our only TD in the playoffs that year too.

(11-14-2021, 07:45 PM)jason Wrote: Leon sealed a must win game with a pick 6 vs the Steelers in 2012... Pretty sure he scored our only TD in the playoffs that year too.

I do remember that play, it's just when I think of hall the first play that comes to mind is the tipped pass. I'm going to assume it's because I've never seen anything like live that before or since. 

If Vontaze had elite Athleticism man watch out dude would have been a first Ballot HOF.

(11-14-2021, 08:39 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I do remember that play, it's just when I think of hall the first play that comes to mind is the tipped pass. I'm going to assume it's because I've never seen anything like live that before or since. 

I had the misfortune of seeing that play in person... From the end zone that Stokely scored in.

This one is easy and I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned it yet:


Peter Warrick with elite speed. Give him the 4.22 speed Ross had and I don't think anyone could have covered him. Hell, I don't think you could have covered him with 2 guys given his start/stop and agility.

(11-13-2021, 01:24 AM)Housh Wrote: I saw a post on Isiah Simmons earlier saying how good he’s played for Arizona and how he’s the rare mix of athleticism and IQ and it made me wonder what Bengals player would’ve been insane if they had elite IQ OR elite athleticism?


I have a lot of names but Taylor Mays keeps coming to mind. Taylor Mays with elite football IQ could’ve been a football god.


Any more?

I’m only 30 so my choices are only from ppl i saw play in my lifetime

I'm surprised that so many people keep mentioning Taylor Mays, his stiffness as an athlete really hindered him, I don't think it was mental.

I'll also give a defensive player as well:

Tim Krumrie.

Give him all the physical tools with his heart and football IQ and he would have been an easy first ballot HOFer.

(11-14-2021, 09:25 PM)J24 Wrote: If Vontaze had elite Athleticism man watch out dude would have been a first Ballot  HOF.

I feel like the ability wasn't what that guy was lacking. If he didn't have advanced mental issues, he may have ended up a HOFer. 

(11-14-2021, 11:42 PM)Chip Smallwood Wrote: I feel like the ability wasn't what that guy was lacking. If he didn't have advanced mental issues, he may have ended up a HOFer. 

he had a great feel for the game, it covered up his athletic limitations