We'll see.. Talk is cheap. Does any player ever say, "Yeah, I sucked and I am going to keep sucking."? No, all of them say they're going to do better.. I'm not accusing him of anything, but saying you're going to do something is not the same as actually doing it.

Before we as board GM's make a final decision on Bates future, we have to look at the safety class in this years draft and free agency.

I haven't paid much attention to safety's in the draft/fa but looks like I may need to. If it's not a good class for either, then I'd say he'll be tagged.

(11-16-2021, 10:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Before we as board GM's make a final decision on Bates future, we have to look at the safety class in this years draft and free agency.

I haven't paid much attention to safety's in the draft/fa but looks like I may need to. If it's not a good class for either, then I'd say he'll be tagged.

Again, money talks, but it has to be backed up on the field. The BS walks.. End of story..

(11-16-2021, 10:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Before we as board GM's make a final decision on Bates future, we have to look at the safety class in this years draft and free agency.

I haven't paid much attention to safety's in the draft/fa but looks like I may need to. If it's not a good class for either, then I'd say he'll be tagged.

Vonn Bell's former NO teammate Marcus Williams would be a good FA target, as well as Honey Badger and Devin McCourty.

(11-15-2021, 09:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're honestly trying to spin $6.8m as not much money? Child please.

You're also acting like the NFL is his ONLY source of income right now as if zero endorsement or appearance money has been made at all. 

Not to mention that all of your nonsensical numbers is based off the fact that he just stuffs the money into a mattress rather than even safe investments.

On top of all of that, he has already qualified for an NFL pension because that only takes 3 credited years in the NFL to qualify for. So once he's 55 he'll be getting yearly checks from that as well.

He only has $6.8m, plus endorsement money, plus a pension, and in this theroetical situation where he can play 0 more games suddenly and it keeps him from being capable of working he would have access to NFL disability of up to an extra $135k/yr. How could he possibly ever survive? Poor him.

I didn't know about the details of a pension. Pensions are so rare that I thought pretty much everywhere got rid of them.
As for the endorsements, I have no idea what endorsements he has or had.
I also do not know what his investments are.
Since we don't know about the investments and endorsements, I didn't want to speculate that he had done either of them and how much.

Regardless, I stand by my point. We don't know his financial situation to comment whether $6.8 mill would allow him to live "comfortably" the rest of his life. Now if you're talking $10+ mill, I can better understand and agree to that argument, but I think $6.8 mill could potentially be difficult based on location and all that for the next 40+ years.

He's in his self-preservation mode. He wants to be healthy for his next contract. He's not gonna be making more plays.

Seriously!! If you can't survive by investing 2 million dollars wisely (low estimate of what's left after all his deductions) then it won't matter if you make $10 million a year. He'll blow that too.

(11-16-2021, 10:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Before we as board GM's make a final decision on Bates future, we have to look at the safety class in this years draft and free agency.

I haven't paid much attention to safety's in the draft/fa but looks like I may need to. If it's not a good class for either, then I'd say he'll be tagged.

Another thing to consider, if we sure up our CB room, does the need for Bates diminish a bit? There are some really good corners in the upcoming draft. If we snag one of those, have Awuzie playing well along with Bell and maybe a free agent who can stay healthy, the need for an elite safety doesn’t seem as necessary. I still want to sign Bates, I’m just not sure how much we should be willing to pay.

(11-15-2021, 05:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  I don't know of anyway to play football to "avoid injury".  All he is accomplishing is "avoiding millions of dollars".

I loved his play last year, but I am starting to question his psyche.  Sure am glad we didn't make him one of the top paid safeties in the league.

Boy I don't know....remember this beauty from AJ Green last year?     I think AJ ran into about $18 million on his way outta town...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8EN5Jn9yog

I do agree with you that we made the right move by waiting another year to pay him.  He has been up and down during his 4 years here.  
He still does have some time to turn things around as does the whole team.

I'd be interested in knowing if teammates respect his business decision or if they are getting on him for not playing to the best of his ability.

(11-16-2021, 12:39 PM)Mer Wrote: Seriously!! If you can't survive by investing 2 million dollars wisely (low estimate of what's left after all his deductions) then it won't matter if you make $10 million a year. He'll blow that too.

You guys crack me up with this crap. Your earnings are all relative to your peers. I am sure a lot of people look at me as a systems engineer and say 'he makes too much money,' but in reality there are plenty of other systems engineers who make more money than me. Everyone wants to be paid what the market dictates. If the market dictates that Bates isn't worth his desired contract, then he won't get it. I always find it so funny how we are all so quick to hop on the case of players not 'deserving to paid X.' You are worth what the market says you are worth. I am not sure why everyone is so protective of Mike Brown's pocket book.

At least Bates was honest enough to admit that he hasn't been playing to the best of his ability. Plenty of other players would just shrug or brush off inconsistent and lackluster production. 

It's not a good look, but I do appreciate his honesty about the situation. He could've just deflected, or not even acknowledged it. Let's see how it plays out....

(11-16-2021, 02:33 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: You guys crack me up with this crap. Your earnings are all relative to your peers. I am sure a lot of people look at me as a systems engineer and say 'he makes too much money,' but in reality there are plenty of other systems engineers who make more money than me. Everyone wants to be paid what the market dictates. If the market dictates that Bates isn't worth his desired contract, then he won't get it. I always find it so funny how we are all so quick to hop on the case of players not 'deserving to paid X.' You are worth what the market says you are worth. I am not sure why everyone is so protective of Mike Brown's pocket book.

At least Bates was honest enough to admit that he hasn't been playing to the best of his ability. Plenty of other players would just shrug or brush off inconsistent and lackluster production. 

I wasn't saying he was or wasn't worth it as compared to his peers. My comment was based off other posts about the amount of money he's already getting paid not being enough to live off of if he retired/injured after the season and didn't get another contract.

(11-16-2021, 02:33 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: You guys crack me up with this crap. Your earnings are all relative to your peers. I am sure a lot of people look at me as a systems engineer and say 'he makes too much money,' but in reality there are plenty of other systems engineers who make more money than me. Everyone wants to be paid what the market dictates. If the market dictates that Bates isn't worth his desired contract, then he won't get it. I always find it so funny how we are all so quick to hop on the case of players not 'deserving to paid X.' You are worth what the market says you are worth. I am not sure why everyone is so protective of Mike Brown's pocket book.

At least Bates was honest enough to admit that he hasn't been playing to the best of his ability. Plenty of other players would just shrug or brush off inconsistent and lackluster production. 

I don't think anyone is protecting Mike Brown's pocketbook.  Most fans understand that in a salary cap league, it's bad to pay elite money for a guy who is mediocre-bad half the time and only elite 1/4 of the time.

I'm never going to begrudge a guy for getting every cent he can, but I'm not going to fall over myself to have sympathy for a guy who wanted his existing contract torn up and to be paid at an elite level after only one year of elite level play.  I'm especially not going to be sympathetic after he admits to being mopey about it and mailing it in when the team is in the playoff hunt.  If he wants to get paid, he needs to prove '20 wasn't a fluke.  So far, he very much looks like WJIII all over again.

(11-16-2021, 02:33 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: You guys crack me up with this crap. Your earnings are all relative to your peers. I am sure a lot of people look at me as a systems engineer and say 'he makes too much money,' but in reality there are plenty of other systems engineers who make more money than me. Everyone wants to be paid what the market dictates. If the market dictates that Bates isn't worth his desired contract, then he won't get it. I always find it so funny how we are all so quick to hop on the case of players not 'deserving to paid X.' You are worth what the market says you are worth. I am not sure why everyone is so protective of Mike Brown's pocket book.

At least Bates was honest enough to admit that he hasn't been playing to the best of his ability. Plenty of other players would just shrug or brush off inconsistent and lackluster production. 

Really makes you look like you didn't actually read the comments you're criticizing at all before coming in hot to post this. Nobody said "he makes too much money" and nobody said anything about protecting Mike Brown's pocketbook.

It was a discussion on if someone would be able to live after earning $6.8m (plus pension, plus endorsement money, plus disability, etc) or not. 

This is a bad look for someone who is a leader on defense. Leaders are expected to rise above the noise and their personal issues to unify the team. To prove his team's trust, he is owning up to his fault and pledging to change. Unless he suffers a Shazier like injury, he is getting another contract. Cincy is a blue collar town. He may find the average hard working Joe making less than 50k a year a little less receptive of his admission. But as with all things, winning is the best solution

(11-16-2021, 10:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Really makes you look like you didn't actually read the comments you're criticizing at all before coming in hot to post this. Nobody said "he makes too much money" and nobody said anything about protecting Mike Brown's pocketbook.

It was a discussion on if someone would be able to live after earning $6.8m (plus pension, plus endorsement money, plus disability, etc) or not. 

Thats a fair criticism, and I will admit I rushed to judgement and probably projected a bit on you guys. Its just a mentality I have seen on here a lot in the past.

Whether it's here or somewhere else, Bates' production this year cost him money. He is going to have to ball out the rest of the season to even look at numbers he was looking at before the start of the season. Good for the Bengals, seems they played it smart. And good for him if he plays at an elite level the rest of the year and gets the number he's looking at. I find it quite hilarious though that he went complaining to his old teammates and was told "No one's feeling sorry for you." Talk about a smack in the face, hopefully that woke him up.