Raiders play a base cover two most of the time and rarely blitz. I expect them to try and take away/double Chase so the underneath should be open most of the game.

The Chiefs threw to their backs out of the backfield a lot last night and had a ton of success doing so. Hopefully the Bengals get Mixon/Evans deeply involved in the passing game. I also think this could be a breakout game for Tyler Boyd out of the slot as well.

I honestly think this is a good matchup for the Bengals. The Raiders defensive line is pretty mediocre and in the middle of the league in pressures.

Chiefs had a good game plan, the Bengals have the personal and ability to copy it.

(11-15-2021, 10:46 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Raiders play a base cover two most of the time and rarely blitz. I expect them to try and take away/double Chase so the underneath should be open most of the game.

The Chiefs threw to their backs out of the backfield a lot last night and had a ton of success doing so. Hopefully the Bengals get Mixon/Evans deeply involved in the passing game. I also think this could be a breakout game for Tyler Boyd out of the slot as well.

I honestly think this is a good matchup for the Bengals. The Raiders defensive line is pretty mediocre and in the middle of the league in pressures.

Chiefs had a good game plan, the Bengals have the personal and ability to copy it.

Actually the Raiders play a ton of cover 3 and they were fighting their urges to get back into it throughout the night and got caught a few times. Do not expect the Raiders to play much two high at all as Abrams is not a good cover safety and they tend to use him as more of a robber/enforcer. Every team in the NFL right now is trying to play the Chiefs in two high with four man pressures because others have had success but that doesn't make every team in the NFL is a two high team that doesn't blitz.

(11-15-2021, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: Actually the Raiders play a ton of cover 3 and they were fighting their urges to get back into it throughout the night and got caught a few times. Do not expect the Raiders to play much two high at all as Abrams is not a good cover safety and they tend to use him as more of a robber/enforcer. Every team in the NFL right now is trying to play the Chiefs in two high with four man pressures because others have had success but that doesn't make every team in the NFL is a two high team that doesn't blitz.

I know at one point, Oakland/LV was one of the league leaders in running quarters coverage but I'm assuming that has stopped since Abram was drafted. Likely see a lot of Cover 3 and Cover 1 shells then, I would assume? I've paid no attention to the Raiders aside from their offense. No idea what they are running on the defensive side of the ball. 

(11-15-2021, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: Actually the Raiders play a ton of cover 3 and they were fighting their urges to get back into it throughout the night and got caught a few times. Do not expect the Raiders to play much two high at all as Abrams is not a good cover safety and they tend to use him as more of a robber/enforcer. Every team in the NFL right now is trying to play the Chiefs in two high with four man pressures because others have had success but that doesn't make every team in the NFL is a two high team that doesn't blitz.

Yes, cover 3. Thanks for correcting me - brain was thinking one thing but fingers typed another. Same game plan applies though. 

(11-15-2021, 11:08 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I know at one point, Oakland/LV was one of the league leaders in running quarters coverage but I'm assuming that has stopped since Abram was drafted. Likely see a lot of Cover 3 and Cover 1 shells then, I would assume? I've paid no attention to the Raiders aside from their offense. No idea what they are running on the defensive side of the ball. 

Gus Bradley came in and brought the base Seattle cover 3 with him. They don't run it as much as other disciples tend to but it's there often. 

(11-15-2021, 11:20 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yes, cover 3. Thanks for correcting me - brain was thinking one thing but fingers typed another. Same game plan applies though. 

Unfortunately, not really. It's not that passing to backs is a bad way to attack cover 3, it's just that it's not the ideal way to attack it. There are a couple nice weaknesses when attacking cover 3 that do actually include Boyd. One way you can attack cover 3 is by running double vertical seam routes. By attacking both sides of the single high safety he can only get over to help on one. If you run dagger concepts or clear out concepts under those seams the hook zone defenders have to decide to carry the seam into help (if there is any) or to drop down on the underneath route. 

The other really good option for cover 3 is what are called flood concepts. You are essentially attacking three levels outside the hash with something like a flat route, out route and go route. What happens is the curl flat defender gets put into a conundrum deciding to come down on the flat or get depth on the out. The deep 3rd corner is going to get ran off on the go route so you have a two on one situation now. Depending on checks, you can force the defense to then play split coverage to the 3 receiver side choosing to check into man and that is when you can take advantage of one on one combo routes to Chase. The other option here is if they stay cover 3 to the three receiver side they may check to what is called "mable". In mable they play cover 3 to the three receiver side then play man on the backside, this is another way we can isolate Chase in one on one situations.

We we always get teams after an embarrassing loss. Now the Raiders will play like world beaters on Sunday. Although we’re coming off an embarrassing loss so we need to play like world beaters.

(11-15-2021, 10:46 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Raiders play a base cover two most of the time and rarely blitz. I expect them to try and take away/double Chase so the underneath should be open most of the game.

The Chiefs threw to their backs out of the backfield a lot last night and had a ton of success doing so. Hopefully the Bengals get Mixon/Evans deeply involved in the passing game. I also think this could be a breakout game for Tyler Boyd out of the slot as well.

I honestly think this is a good matchup for the Bengals. The Raiders defensive line is pretty mediocre and in the middle of the league in pressures.

Chiefs had a good game plan, the Bengals have the personal and ability to copy it.

Plus hit Carr a lot and he will throw interceptions, dude was stupid against the Chiefs. He would get hit and throw the ball 
straight up in the air instead of taking the sack. Should of had at least a couple more INTS in that game. We need to use 
Uzomah in this game and like you said Boyd over the middle.

(11-15-2021, 12:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: Unfortunately, not really. It's not that passing to backs is a bad way to attack cover 3, it's just that it's not the ideal way to attack it. There are a couple nice weaknesses when attacking cover 3 that do actually include Boyd. One way you can attack cover 3 is by running double vertical seam routes. By attacking both sides of the single high safety he can only get over to help on one. If you run dagger concepts or clear out concepts under those seams the hook zone defenders have to decide to carry the seam into help (if there is any) or to drop down on the underneath route. 

The other really good option for cover 3 is what are called flood concepts. You are essentially attacking three levels outside the hash with something like a flat route, out route and go route. What happens is the curl flat defender gets put into a conundrum deciding to come down on the flat or get depth on the out. The deep 3rd corner is going to get ran off on the go route so you have a two on one situation now. Depending on checks, you can force the defense to then play split coverage to the 3 receiver side choosing to check into man and that is when you can take advantage of one on one combo routes to Chase. The other option here is if they stay cover 3 to the three receiver side they may check to what is called "mable". In mable they play cover 3 to the three receiver side then play man on the backside, this is another way we can isolate Chase in one on one situations.

Nice, I just figure they are going to double Chase as much as possible. They don't have a Denzel Ward type corner.

(11-16-2021, 02:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice, I just figure they are going to double Chase as much as possible. They don't have a Denzel Ward type corner.

It's hard to double guys in the NFL constantly, which is why elite corners are so expensive. From their cover 3 look it's a bit tougher to double because of where your help can come from. You can usually provide help into the middle of the field but it's very difficult to provide help outside the hash marks in single high looks. The bracket could come from the hook zone defender but that is going to be a LB or in Raiders case a bad coverage S like Abrams.

This really is a good matchup for us with our offensive weapons. I think we could see a big game out of Chase as well as either CJ/Boyd. Reason I say either is because in a lot of cases CJ/Boyd with be the conflict point in the coverages where one will be left open pretty regularly. 

(11-16-2021, 03:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: It's hard to double guys in the NFL constantly, which is why elite corners are so expensive. From their cover 3 look it's a bit tougher to double because of where your help can come from. You can usually provide help into the middle of the field but it's very difficult to provide help outside the hash marks in single high looks. The bracket could come from the hook zone defender but that is going to be a LB or in Raiders case a bad coverage S like Abrams.

This really is a good matchup for us with our offensive weapons. I think we could see a big game out of Chase as well as either CJ/Boyd. Reason I say either is because in a lot of cases CJ/Boyd with be the conflict point in the coverages where one will be left open pretty regularly. 

Well said, love your football knowledge man, you know your shit.

(11-16-2021, 06:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said, love your football knowledge man, you know your shit.

Easily one of the most knowledgeable posters on here.... easily.

(11-16-2021, 06:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said, love your football knowledge man, you know your shit.

Thanks, I like sharing the X’s and O’s insights as best I can. I’m no expert but I definitely deep dive as best I can with the people I’ve been fortunate to meet who have been deeply involved in the league.

(11-16-2021, 03:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: It's hard to double guys in the NFL constantly, which is why elite corners are so expensive. From their cover 3 look it's a bit tougher to double because of where your help can come from. You can usually provide help into the middle of the field but it's very difficult to provide help outside the hash marks in single high looks. The bracket could come from the hook zone defender but that is going to be a LB or in Raiders case a bad coverage S like Abrams.

This really is a good matchup for us with our offensive weapons. I think we could see a big game out of Chase as well as either CJ/Boyd. Reason I say either is because in a lot of cases CJ/Boyd with be the conflict point in the coverages where one will be left open pretty regularly. 

On the other side I feel the Bengals can rob the middle and force every ball to the sideline.

(11-16-2021, 09:36 PM)Synric Wrote: On the other side I feel the Bengals can rob the middle and force every ball to the sideline.

Renfrow and Waller definitely call for robber/double robber coverage. I am taking my chances outside on D Ajax and Edwards all day.

Would be a great game to unleash Chris Evans

(11-16-2021, 09:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: Renfrow and Waller definitely call for robber/double robber coverage. I am taking my chances outside on D Ajax and Edwards all day.

The only Raiders game I have seen this season was against the Ravens, but the entire passing game seemed to be just Renfro and Waller.

(11-17-2021, 10:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The only Raiders game I have seen this season was against the Ravens, but the entire passing game seemed to be just Renfro and Waller.

For the most part it is, especially with Ruggs gone. They lost their FB Ingold who was part of it too on short yardage to an ACL tear so their running game and short yardarge situations will be a bit tougher now.

(11-16-2021, 09:36 PM)Synric Wrote: On the other side I feel the Bengals can rob the middle and force every ball to the sideline.

(11-16-2021, 09:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: Renfrow and Waller definitely call for robber/double robber coverage. I am taking my chances outside on D Ajax and Edwards all day.

Apple better put his big boy pants on...

We need to clean up some simple things on defense which starts with basic tackling. Jacobs hasn’t been great this year but he can break tackles we can’t let him get going. With short passes underneath we have to rally to the football and tackle. We haven’t been great at rushing the passer lately because we’re not in long passing downs we’re guys like Hendricks can pin his ears back and rush. Offensively don’t turn the football over. The inability to covert short 3rd downs makes no sense to me. I think some of its bad play designs with not enough guys running deep to clear out underneath stuff so the secondary isn’t just sitting on everything at the sticks. Or stack receivers and run multiple routes to clear space ? With Evans fully heathy I would love to use him more on 3rd down he’s a miss match in the passing game. Even if teams double Chase there no excuses why Boyd and Higgins can’t beat single coverage.