(11-23-2021, 11:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carlos Dunlap = MLK

It's entertaining when you go Full Fred.

(11-23-2021, 10:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't be serious.

Over the previous 11 seasons ('10-'20) JJ Watt is the only player with more QB hits than Dunlap's and no defensive lineman has more passes defended.  Los is also 7th in tackles, 9th in sacks, and 13th in tackles for loss (among all players).

He has gone to the playoffs 6 times, played for 5 top-10 defenses, and went to 2 Pro Bowls.

He was one of the most consistently productive defensive players in the league for over a decade. And he was not a freak athlete who could get by on raw ability alone.

And you think a guy like that might be the reason the Seahawks are losing this year?

Seriously man, WTF?

This is what really surprises me that a player can do all this for your team and fans can throw all that away because it ended what somewhat badly. I mean Carlos didn't like what the coaches were doing and called them out. I mean whether you side with Dunlap or the coaches the team and the coaches were terrible. Now Lou has the defense playing solid but we just spent what a Qtr of a billion dollars the last two offseasons? I should hope they'd be playing solid. Dunlap was a great player for us for a long time probably a lot longer then this coaching staff will be here.

(11-23-2021, 10:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't be serious.

Over the previous 11 seasons ('10-'20) JJ Watt is the only player with more QB hits than Dunlap's and no defensive lineman has more passes defended.  Los is also 7th in tackles, 9th in sacks, and 13th in tackles for loss (among all players).

He has gone to the playoffs 6 times, played for 5 top-10 defenses, and went to 2 Pro Bowls.

He was one of the most consistently productive defensive players in the league for over a decade. And he was not a freak athlete who could get by on raw ability alone.

And you think a guy like that might be the reason the Seahawks are losing this year?

Seriously man, WTF?


I am serious. I did not say he was not talented. i just said he is up and down plays when he feels like it.
He can be a dominate player when he wants to be. Remember the comment he made about "making a business decision when you out on the filed sometimes". The only stat that matters this year is in 10 games he has .5 sacks and 15 tackles of which 5 were solo. He is averaging .05 sacks and 1.5 tackles per game. Compare that to his Bengals replacement Sam Hubbard. Sam's avg is .6 sacks per game and 4.5 tackles per game.

(11-23-2021, 11:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You believe that a man just bends over and takes what ever is given to him.

Personally I think players who stand up for their beliefs and protest unfair treatment are the bigger men.

Nobody is saying you cannot stand up for your personal beliefs. I believe that in a team environment it is always appreciated to voice your beliefs internally not through the media. That I think is more of a coward way of doing it.

You would have thought with his impressive stats that teams would have been clamoring for him. All the Seahawks would give was BJ Finney and we were more than happy to take that. He became a FA and nobody wanted him still.

(11-23-2021, 11:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carlos was playing like garbage and the coaches tried to see what they had in the young guys. That's all it was. There was no "unfair" treatment of Carlos Dunlap. Things weren't going how he like it and decided to point the finger everywhere but in the mirror. Or as you call it: He was a man. 

Agree with this take... coaches wanted to see the young guys play.  Some men can't handle the process and or progression their career takes them. Carlos acted out immaturely and was sent to Seattle.

Bengals also signed the better player in Free Agency this year.... Coaching Staff / Ownership won.

(11-23-2021, 10:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't be serious.

Over the previous 11 seasons ('10-'20) JJ Watt is the only player with more QB hits than Dunlap's and no defensive lineman has more passes defended.  Los is also 7th in tackles, 9th in sacks, and 13th in tackles for loss (among all players).

He has gone to the playoffs 6 times, played for 5 top-10 defenses, and went to 2 Pro Bowls.

He was one of the most consistently productive defensive players in the league for over a decade. And he was not a freak athlete who could get by on raw ability alone.

And you think a guy like that might be the reason the Seahawks are losing this year?

Seriously man, WTF?

So, what's your point, exactly?  That Dunlap was one of the better defensive ends in his draft class?  That's about the extent of people who played that many seasons in their primes during that exact same 11 year period.  To show just how much you're manipulating his stats by doing this, you're saying he's 9th in sacks during that time frame, but he only cracked the Top 20 once during that period.  The guy had one double digit sack season and you're making him out to be an elite pass rusher.  

He also was a very gifted player who was in the 90th percentile for height and speed for his position.  It was largely character/maturity issues that caused him to slide into the 2nd.  

(11-24-2021, 02:24 AM)Whatever Wrote: So, what's your point, exactly?  That Dunlap was one of the better defensive ends in his draft class?  That's about the extent of people who played that many seasons in their primes during that exact same 11 year period.  To show just how much you're manipulating his stats by doing this, you're saying he's 9th in sacks during that time frame, but he only cracked the Top 20 once during that period.  The guy had one double digit sack season and you're making him out to be an elite pass rusher.   

My point by showing his career totals is to prove his consistency and durability.  He was a steady grinder instead of a guy who flashed a big year once or twice and then disappeared. 

It takes some special type of spin to shit on a guy for ranking top ten in the league over a decade.  And, of course it also requires you to just look at one stat like sacks and ignore everything else like tackles, QB hits, and passes defended.

(11-24-2021, 02:24 AM)Whatever Wrote: He also was a very gifted player who was in the 90th percentile for height and speed for his position.  It was largely character/maturity issues that caused him to slide into the 2nd.  

Dunlap was BELOW AVERAGE for a DE in broad jump, long jump, bench press, 3-cone drill, and short shuttle.  He also had a DUI arrest before the bowl game but that had nothing to do with work ethic.

(11-23-2021, 11:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carlos was playing like garbage and the coaches tried to see what they had in the young guys. That's all it was.

And this is exactly what proves my point about how clueless the Bengals coaches were.

Here are the stats for the FIRST FIVE GAMES of the season put up by the guy you claimed was "playing like garbage"

17 tkl.... 2 TFL.... 3 QB hits.... 1 sack... 2 PD

Now here are the FULL SEASON stats for the guys the coaches benched Dunlap behind

Bledsoe... 17 tkl.... 0 TFL.... 0 QB hits.... 0 sacks... 2 PD
Kareem... 19 tkl.... 1 TFL.... 2 QB hits.... 1 sacks... 0 PD

(11-23-2021, 09:21 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I really like the roster turnover that this new coaching staff was able to pull off.
This locker room has been very enjoyable to follow. We don't seem to have malcontents.
Carlos Dunlap wanted out and was traded for basically nothing. AJ Green and Atkins time was up in Cincinnati.

Dunlap was great last year after the trade but this year his stats are horrible. It is interesting to see how disappointed the Seattle fans are with Dunlap. His up and down effort rubs off on other players. Seattle has gone downhill and you have to wonder how much blame is on Dunlap. I still don't understand why Geno Atkins has not signed with anyone. I assume he cannot pass a physical.

This might spark a lot of "that is a HOF player, what has ZT ever done", but you are absolutely correct.  People lose on the concept of team over individual talent all the time, despite seeing examples of it every day.  Look at OBJ.  He didn't help Cleveland at all.  Do I think he is a massive talent?  Yes.  Would I want him here?  Hell, no.   

Green was never a publicly negative force (to my knowledge) and neither was Geno, but I agree with the essentially new roster and starting fresh.  New leaders have emerged.  

Perhaps the most overlooked thing about this team from a roster standpoint is that Burrow, Mixon, Boyd, Higgins, and Chase are all under contracts that extend at least three more years.  That is a GREAT young nucleus on offense.  

This team is ahead of the so-called schedule and I am loving every minute of it.  

(11-23-2021, 10:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF would he do that?  He is not being benched behind inferior players like he was here.  He is still playing in a regular rotation getting about half of the snaps in Seattle.

Inferior resumes?  Sure.  Inferior players?  Not that year.  

(11-23-2021, 10:43 PM)Tony Wrote: I know I do

 The guy half assed it way too much.. He's a Malcontent...

Besides those days are over for him.  All he has is being a selfish ***** now..

Yep.  And you want to know how much of a half-assed player he is?  Just watch him if he gets the Bengals on the schedule.  He will destroy the Bengals because he will be incredibly motivated.  Now?  Just drawing a check.  

(11-24-2021, 08:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Inferior resumes?  Sure.  Inferior players?  Not that year.  

Ahem,

(11-24-2021, 08:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And this is exactly what proves my point about how clueless the Bengals coaches were.

Here are the stats for the FIRST FIVE GAMES of the season put up by the guy you claimed was "playing like garbage"

17 tkl.... 2 TFL.... 3 QB hits.... 1 sack... 2 PD

Now here are the FULL SEASON stats for the guys the coaches benched Dunlap behind

Bledsoe... 17 tkl.... 0 TFL.... 0 QB hits.... 0 sacks... 2 PD
Kareem... 19 tkl.... 1 TFL.... 2 QB hits.... 1 sacks... 0 PD

(11-24-2021, 08:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep.  And you want to know how much of a half-assed player he is?  Just watch him if he gets the Bengals on the schedule.  He will destroy the Bengals because he will be incredibly motivated.  Now?  Just drawing a check.  

Wow, how can I possibly argue with make believe stats?

Congratulations.  You win the "pretend" argument for the day.

(11-23-2021, 10:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He only played 12 snaps in his final game as a Bengal while Amani Bledsoe and Khalid Kareen got 46.  That was the final straw.




It is funny how I keep explaining this to you over and over again, but you still don't get it.

If Dunlap is not better than the guys in front of him then he is not going to complain.  But you have to ignore that so that you can still keep trying to spin the lie that he was just a malcontent who was not being disrespected and misused by the coaches.

Here is a hint to help you understand why Pete Carroll and Marvin Lewis did not have a problem with Dunlap being a malcontent.  Look at their career coaching records compared to Taylors.  Dunlap respects coaches who know how to win.

I copied and pasted this multiple times and printed it out.  Then, I shredded it and spread if all over the yard for fertilizer.


Coaches at ANY level have massive egos.  They ALL think they can get the most out of a player that is maybe frustrated with his current role on a team.  Hell, I see it at the high school club swimming level.  A kid isn't doing well despite going to every practice, so they want to transfer to another team.  The other coach knows the times they used to do, and thinks how they can get them going again, but what they don't know is the attitude that comes with that kid.  They don't know HOW they practice.  Showing up isn't enough.  I used to say (Only to the elite team kids that were gunning for division I scholarships) "Practice doesn't make perfect....you don't win by showing up.  Perfect practice makes perfect.  You have to attack every challenge set, every kick set, every dryland workout, like it is a competition.  THAT is how you get faster".  

Now, there are often "change of scenery" situations that get something extra out of an athlete, but that is often short-lived and infrequent.  

If the player, at their core, isn't about getting better, following a scheme, being part of a team, etc.  It is best to move on to someone that will.   

(11-24-2021, 08:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Ahem,

(20 minutes ago)fredtoast Wrote: Wrote:And this is exactly what proves my point about how clueless the Bengals coaches were.

Here are the stats for the FIRST FIVE GAMES of the season put up by the guy you claimed was "playing like garbage"

17 tkl.... 2 TFL.... 3 QB hits.... 1 sack... 2 PD

Now here are the FULL SEASON stats for the guys the coaches benched Dunlap behind

Bledsoe... 17 tkl.... 0 TFL.... 0 QB hits.... 0 sacks... 2 PD
Kareem... 19 tkl.... 1 TFL.... 2 QB hits.... 1 sacks... 0 PD

Classic Fred.  Do you care to post the stats of the guy that ACTUALLY TOOK HIS POSITION?  One Carl Lawson, as you seem to have forgotten.  

(11-24-2021, 08:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow, how can I possibly argue with make believe stats?

Congratulations.  You win the "pretend" argument for the day.

Thanks!  That makes my record against you about the same as that of Bill Belichick against the Jets.  

 

(11-23-2021, 10:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Based on his production 90% of the defensive players in the league "half-assed it way to much".




So were George Washington and Martin Luther King.

Again, by resume or the year he got demoted?  If we go by resume, then AJ Green would have stayed and kept Ja'Marr Chase on the bench.  And one thing that you can't see with the stats is what his assignment was and what he actually executed.  

He would take himself out of so many plays, taking that wide arc around the OT and the QB or RB could step right in to his lane.  I can't believe you didn't notice that.  It was pathetic "show off" football, just trying to luck in to a sack and not doing his assignment at all.  

Your next question will be "how do I know his assignment" and you would be correct.  Just like PFF, I don't know his assignment.  What I do know is the role of that position and he had no interest in containment or run defense.  He was trying to get stats that pad his paycheck and nothing else.  

(11-24-2021, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Classic Fred.  Do you care to post the stats of the guy that ACTUALLY TOOK HIS POSITION?  One Carl Lawson, as you seem to have forgotten.  

My memory works just fine.  When they demoted Dunlap and he only played 12 snaps against the Browns Bledsoe and Kareem got 46 snaps.  Lawson's snap count did not change at all.

(11-24-2021, 09:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He would take himself out of so many plays, taking that wide arc around the OT and the QB or RB could step right in to his lane.  I can't believe you didn't notice that.  It was pathetic "show off" football, just trying to luck in to a sack and not doing his assignment at all.  

Your next question will be "how do I know his assignment" and you would be correct.  Just like PFF, I don't know his assignment.  What I do know is the role of that position and he had no interest in containment or run defense.  He was trying to get stats that pad his paycheck and nothing else.  

This is BS.

Bengals run defense was WORSE after they benched Dunlap (151.7 yds/g, 5.2 avg) than before (141.8 yds/g, 5.0 avg).

Also Dunlap was not playing for a contract because was signed through the 2021 season.  But do you really think NFL teams are so stupid that they just pay a player based on his sack numbers without watching any film on how he plays?

(11-24-2021, 09:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: My memory works just fine.  When they demoted Dunlap and he only played 12 snaps against the Browns Bledsoe and Kareem got 46 snaps.  Lawson's snap count did not change at all.

For the year, 2020:

Carl Lawson-  68.2% (and you are dead wrong, Lawson was playing around 60% of snaps before the second Cleveland game and then closer to 75% after)

Carlos Dunlap- 26.1%

Amani Bledsoe- 29.43%

Khalid Kareem- 24.1%

Again, he was not replaced by Kareem and Bledsoe, he lost his starting role to Lawson.