This isn't meant to be an actual: "Hey, ZT, you are an idiot if you don't call the game like I would", but just wanting to open a discussion.

Looking at the PFF ratings from their last several games and having been able to watch them several times, here are my observations on the steelers and how I would hope the Bengals attack them:

I would not be run-first. Yep, you read that right. The weakness of the steelers is their safeties and corners. I realize Minkah Fitzpatrick will be back. Fine. That leaves 4 other players that are well below average having to cover the likes of Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Uzo, and Mixon/Evans (more on that later).

I don't want to put Burrow in a position to take a lot of hits, but I feel that being pass-first helps to avoid that. Here's why: If the Bengals run and get stuffed early, it puts Burrow in position to have to complete passes on pass-rush dream positions like 3rd and 10. I would rather see a lot of REALLY short passes (4 yard completions) than a run with no gain.

I would come out in their traditional 11 personnel and having Chase taking the proverbial top off the defense. The steelers are almost certain to double him, and that should allow for more easy completions underneath to the aforementioned players. I also would really try to use Evans more early in the game to keep Mixon fresh for later in the game to help close out the game.

I like the idea of early screens and dumps to the RBs to make guys like Watt chase sideline to sideline. Test that injury. Make them chase, and don't run in to the only real strength of their defense.

When you do turn to the run later in the game, run directly at Watt. Go with 11 personnel, but pull the TE and put the extra OT on his side of the field. They can run the ball out of this formation, but still have receivers and a back that can be eligible for targets on play-action.

I know this is just my thoughts, and it might seem surprising given the success of Mixon in the 2nd half against the Raiders (who pretty much stuffed the Cowboys rush attack, or at least made the Cowboys lose patience and decide to throw it a ton. However, I think this will be the opposite of what they are expecting, and Chase will be a huge asset to force them to keep a safety deep.

Thoughts?

Well the problem is Burrow with your analysis.. what I mean by that he prefers and wants more empty sets, he has stated that and so has ZT... so I don;t see how we go away from what Burrow believes is his strong suit empty. As for run first, i like run second more... what I mean is play action/empty sets on 1st down, will hold the rush gives you deep pass early, check off, slants early, then come back with 2nd down runs . We need to keep this game with 3rd and shorts/mediums on offense.

Finally I want to see Burrow run a bit more.. the defenses are not respecting his ability to run at all in RPOs, he should us that to his advantage a few times a game...he has 7 carries in last 4 games, in college he average 9 runs a game... adding this back into his game will open up the offense more


On defense, we will need to contain Harris in both run and pass game, with Ben being no run threat, i like to see them spy Harris a bit.. I like to see them play a two deep soft coverage, Ben has been inconsistent and i prefer letting him make the mistakes than getting beat deep or drawing those pass interference calls on 3rd and long, which Ben loves to try to get...

(11-26-2021, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This isn't meant to be an actual:  "Hey, ZT, you are an idiot if you don't call the game like I would", but just wanting to open a discussion.

Looking at the PFF ratings from their last several games and having been able to watch them several times, here are my observations on the steelers and how I would hope the Bengals attack them:

I would not be run-first.  Yep, you read that right.  The weakness of the steelers is their safeties and corners.  I realize Minkah Fitzpatrick will be back.  Fine.  That leaves 4 other players that are well below average having to cover the likes of Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Uzo, and Mixon/Evans (more on that later).

I don't want to put Burrow in a position to take a lot of hits, but I feel that being pass-first helps to avoid that.  Here's why:  If the Bengals run and get stuffed early, it puts Burrow in position to have to complete passes on pass-rush dream positions like 3rd and 10.  I would rather see a lot of REALLY short passes (4 yard completions) than a run with no gain.  

I would come out in their traditional 11 personnel and having Chase taking the proverbial top off the defense.  The steelers are almost certain to double him, and that should allow for more easy completions underneath to the aforementioned players.  I also would really try to use Evans more early in the game to keep Mixon fresh for later in the game to help close out the game.  

I like the idea of early screens and dumps to the RBs to make guys like Watt chase sideline to sideline.  Test that injury.  Make them chase, and don't run in to the only real strength of their defense.

When you do turn to the run later in the game, run directly at Watt.  Go with 11 personnel, but pull the TE and put the extra OT on his side of the field.  They can run the ball out of this formation, but still have receivers and a back that can be eligible for targets on play-action.

I know this is just my thoughts, and it might seem surprising given the success of Mixon in the 2nd half against the Raiders (who pretty much stuffed the Cowboys rush attack, or at least made the Cowboys lose patience and decide to throw it a ton.  However, I think this will be the opposite of what they are expecting, and Chase will be a huge asset to force them to keep a safety deep.  

Thoughts?

Like all these thoughts about attacking the mismatches early and would do it with quick hitters to Boyd and Uzomah to keep Watt frustrated trying to get to QB until they try to adjust and then go over the top. 

Would also run Chase on mid and long routes and throw to TE and RB right underneath his double teams. Then try to run over Minkah if afforded the chance with bigger bodies instead of running out of bounds early on just as a precedent and a pain toll to be payed while hammering the fact into his head that its going to be a long day. Soften him up and let Chase go to work. 
 
Always like the idea of screens and dumps to RB's more often than the Bengals utilize too. Especially since it alleviates some pressure from OL early and  could frustrate Watt even more so and really test that hip out chasing backs instead of hitting Burrow out of the gate. 

 Would love to see this come to fruition as well, yet we never seem to be great at this for some reason but still like the plan. 

Your plans are way more thought out than my plan of attack though. Which is just to take their towels away and bend them over and spank that heinie until they run home crying to their incestual practicing fanbase. 

There is no Magic Game Plan because Bengals and Steelers have played once already and they play at least twice a year, every year. Up the Ohio River a little at Pittsburgh not much different than down the river a little at Cincinnati. THEY KNOW EACH OTHER. So there is no Magic Game Plan. It will come down to which team puts on The Big Boy Pants and Plays The Hardest. The Steelers will be much harder to beat the second time around. I hope The Bengals Win, but neither team is going to fool or trick each other. They Know Each Other.

This comes down more to making the Blocks and Tackles and Executing The Plays than the Game Plan, because they know darn good and well each others Game Plans. They've played once already and they play twice every year. The Game Plan then is NOT to count on tricks the other team has seen, but to go out and Block Better and Tackle Better.

I would suggest to not lock in on Burrow to Chase as Dalton to Green. Big reason why no play-off wins was the good teams could defense Dalton to Green. The big reason Bengals went to 2 Super Bowls is they had many ways they could beat you on offense, so defenses could not just lock in on Anderson to Collinsworth or Boomer to Eddie Brown. I know everybody has the Rookie Of The Year Man Crush on Chase, but use all the other weapons. Going Burrow to Chase every play is a good way to Lose. Get Mixon, Higgins, Boyd, Uzomah, Sample, Perine into the Game as well. The more these other players are used, the harder it is for defenses to stop The Bengals. It would be far too easy for NFL defenses to shut down Burrow to Chase all game, just as it was far too easy for defenses to shut down Dalton to Green or Palmer to Chad Johnson. No play-off wins because it was too One Dimensional. For Bengals TO WIN, they need to get others in the Game as the 1981 and 1988 Bengals did. Using other players is how you get Burrow to Chase plays OPEN, but if you lock in on just Chase all game, The Defense doubles down and CLOSES THAT.

Again, these teams know each other so there is no MAGIC GAME PLAN. Go out there and Block and Tackle better, and avoid turnovers. The team with the most turnovers and stupid penalties will lose Sundays Bengals vs Steelers Game.

I add 2 warnings from history. #1. The Steelers use to say that they beat Bengals and win Super Bowls because they play Football and the Bengals only have tricks because they aren't tough enough to play real football. This lead to later Steelers teams saying they paid no attention to Chads Mouth before games because he was all hot air, and the Steelers said the Bengals never beat them. #2. Forrest Gregg became coach and he agreed with the Steelers. Coach Gregg said The Bengals were weak and not tough enough. The Vince Lombardi Hall Of Fame Blocker put the Focus on The Bengals BEING tough enough to beat The Steelers, and under Gregg they did. ....So forget tricks, the question is, Are The Bengals TOUGH ENOUGH To Sweep The Steelers ? We find out the answer on Sunday. I know one more thing from this games history. If Bengals have the lead at Half Time, Bengals have had many leads at Halftime only to lose to The Steelers. When you play the Steelers, you better show up to go ALL OUT all 4 Quarters and maybe into Overtime. You never beat the Steelers before Half Time, because They Don't Quit.

For defense, they absolutely cannot let Harris become a receiving threat from the backfield. I don't want to see a Jets like attack beat us with a far superior player than anything the Jets have at the skill positions.

(11-26-2021, 02:02 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: For defense, they absolutely cannot let Harris become a receiving threat from the backfield. I don't want to see a Jets like attack beat us with a far superior player than anything the Jets have at the skill positions.

Raiders tried it last week and we were ready for it. Think the defense has adjusted. Steelers will be looking to beat us with Friermuth.

(11-26-2021, 02:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Raiders tried it last week and we were ready for it. Think the defense has adjusted. Steelers will be looking to beat us with Friermuth.

Fair point, hopefully the defense can shut them down. Ben is in washed up territory so I like our chances.

On D - Cover the middle of the field 10-20 yard plays. Ben has torches us w this much of his career. Especially when he used to have talented T.E’s.

On O - play small ball. Dunk and Dunk. Quit overlooking the gimme 5-yarders in lieu of 50 yard plays ……and don’t force the run.

General note - Turnovers will be huge

How about we give them a taste of their own medicine, RUN & DEFENSE. Then a sweet trick play to top it off, preferably with a TE.

(11-26-2021, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This isn't meant to be an actual:  "Hey, ZT, you are an idiot if you don't call the game like I would", but just wanting to open a discussion.

Looking at the PFF ratings from their last several games and having been able to watch them several times, here are my observations on the steelers and how I would hope the Bengals attack them:

I would not be run-first.  Yep, you read that right.  The weakness of the steelers is their safeties and corners.  I realize Minkah Fitzpatrick will be back.  Fine.  That leaves 4 other players that are well below average having to cover the likes of Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Uzo, and Mixon/Evans (more on that later).

I don't want to put Burrow in a position to take a lot of hits, but I feel that being pass-first helps to avoid that.  Here's why:  If the Bengals run and get stuffed early, it puts Burrow in position to have to complete passes on pass-rush dream positions like 3rd and 10.  I would rather see a lot of REALLY short passes (4 yard completions) than a run with no gain.  

I would come out in their traditional 11 personnel and having Chase taking the proverbial top off the defense.  The steelers are almost certain to double him, and that should allow for more easy completions underneath to the aforementioned players.  I also would really try to use Evans more early in the game to keep Mixon fresh for later in the game to help close out the game.  

I like the idea of early screens and dumps to the RBs to make guys like Watt chase sideline to sideline.  Test that injury.  Make them chase, and don't run in to the only real strength of their defense.

When you do turn to the run later in the game, run directly at Watt.  Go with 11 personnel, but pull the TE and put the extra OT on his side of the field.  They can run the ball out of this formation, but still have receivers and a back that can be eligible for targets on play-action.

I know this is just my thoughts, and it might seem surprising given the success of Mixon in the 2nd half against the Raiders (who pretty much stuffed the Cowboys rush attack, or at least made the Cowboys lose patience and decide to throw it a ton.  However, I think this will be the opposite of what they are expecting, and Chase will be a huge asset to force them to keep a safety deep.  

Thoughts?

I really like the bolded part. Watt has both a groin and a knee issue, so make him run...a lot. The keep Adeniji at RG, and bring in Carman as the tackle on the other side of Reiff and run right over Watt. Do that 3 or 4 times, and he'll likely have to leave the field. I really doubt he's healed yet.

Jet Sweeps up the ass! And then use it play action.

The Squeelers are allowing 126 Rush Yards per game and 174 Rush Yards per game over the last 3 games. I would like to see the Bengals really start to get Mixon going the second half the the season with more big explosive runs. Mixing in the playaction shots down the field and things like RB screens and boots.

Run & Play Action is my vote.

(11-26-2021, 07:54 PM)Synric Wrote: The Squeelers are allowing 126 Rush Yards per game and 174 Rush Yards per game over the last 3 games. I would like to see the Bengals really start to get Mixon going the second half the the season with more big explosive runs. Mixing in the playaction shots down the field and things like RB screens and boots.

Run & Play Action is my vote.

Yup

I think the best way to beat the Steelers is to stay balanced and stay ahead of or even with them in the score early.

Dink and Dunk early.Maybe even throw in a couple series of no huddle.Then start opening up the offense.I think they can score some big plays against this Steelers defense if they use the right schemes.Looking for Chase to bounce back and have a big game.

I don't know much about game planning. Looks like TJ Watt will be playing. He has 12.5 sacks in 8 games played this season. He didn't play the last time the Bengals played them. So I hope they have a plan for that and Burrow isn't running for his life most of the game.

(11-26-2021, 07:32 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Jet Sweeps up the ass! And then use it play action.

I'm cool with Jet Sweeps unless it's 3 and 1... seems like Taylor or Burrow never can get this successfully ran.

(11-26-2021, 10:12 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Dink and Dunk early.Maybe even throw in a couple series of no huddle.Then start opening up the offense.I think they can score some big plays against this Steelers defense if they use the right schemes.Looking for Chase to bounce back and have a big game.

I would love to see this if they get the ball back with a lead.   Teams hate having to make quick calls and not having time to get set.  I haven't seen it all year.  Now would be a PERFECT time to unleash it.  

(11-26-2021, 01:43 PM)kevin Wrote: There is no Magic Game Plan because Bengals and Steelers have played once already and they play at least twice a year, every year.  Up the Ohio River a little at Pittsburgh not much different than down the river a little at Cincinnati.  THEY KNOW EACH OTHER.  So there is no Magic Game Plan.  It will come down to which team puts on The Big Boy Pants and Plays The Hardest.  The Steelers will be much harder to beat the second time around.  I hope The Bengals Win, but neither team is going to fool or trick each other.  They Know Each Other.  

This comes down more to making the Blocks and Tackles and Executing The Plays than the Game Plan, because they know darn good and well each others Game Plans. They've played once already and they play twice every year.  The Game Plan then is NOT to count on tricks the other team has seen, but to go out and Block Better and Tackle Better.  

I would suggest to not lock in on Burrow to Chase as Dalton to Green.  Big reason why no play-off wins was the good teams could defense Dalton to Green.   The big reason Bengals went to 2 Super Bowls is they had many ways they could beat you on offense, so defenses could not just lock in on Anderson to Collinsworth or Boomer to Eddie Brown.  I know everybody has the Rookie Of The Year Man Crush on Chase, but use all the other weapons.  Going Burrow to Chase every play is a good way to Lose.  Get Mixon, Higgins, Boyd, Uzomah, Sample, Perine into the Game as well.  The more these other players are used, the harder it is for defenses to stop The Bengals.  It would be far too easy for NFL defenses to shut down Burrow to Chase all game, just as it was far too easy for defenses to shut down Dalton to Green or Palmer to Chad Johnson.   No play-off wins because it was too One Dimensional.  For Bengals TO WIN, they need to get others in the Game as the 1981 and 1988 Bengals did.   Using other players is how you get Burrow to Chase plays OPEN, but if you lock in on just Chase all game, The Defense doubles down and CLOSES THAT.

Again, these teams know each other so there is no MAGIC GAME PLAN.  Go out there and Block and Tackle better, and avoid turnovers.  The team with the most turnovers and stupid penalties will lose Sundays Bengals vs Steelers Game.

I add 2 warnings from history.  #1.  The Steelers use to say that they beat Bengals and win Super Bowls because they play Football and the Bengals only have tricks because they aren't tough enough to play real football.  This lead to later Steelers teams saying they paid no attention to Chads Mouth before games because he was all hot air, and the Steelers said the Bengals never beat them.  #2.  Forrest Gregg became coach and he agreed with the Steelers.  Coach Gregg said The Bengals were weak and not tough enough.  The Vince Lombardi Hall Of Fame Blocker put the Focus on The Bengals BEING tough enough to beat The Steelers, and under Gregg they did. ....So forget tricks, the question is, Are The Bengals TOUGH ENOUGH To Sweep The Steelers ?   We find out the answer on Sunday. I know one more thing from this games history. If Bengals have the lead at Half Time, Bengals have had many leads at Halftime only to lose to The Steelers.  When you play the Steelers, you better show up to go ALL OUT all 4 Quarters and maybe into Overtime.  You never beat the Steelers before Half Time, because They Don't Quit.

Marv?  Is that you?

It all comes down to blocking and tackling?  

Seriously, I understand what you are trying to say here, but teams that don't diagnose and attack the weakness of the other team (all while trying to limit their strength) are just pissing in to the wind.  The best minds in the game come up with a plan that is specific to their opponent.  That is why Belichik has been so successful.  He knows how to build a roster with smart players that can execute a different scheme week to week.

I agree 100% that if either team comes out "soft" and not ready to hit and be hit, that they will be at a huge disadvantage.  

I have said several times on here (think I even made a dedicated post about it) that the hit from Bell to JJSS was a turning point on this team.  Yes, they laid an egg a few weeks later against Baltimore that was a disappointing end to that season, but the way they FINALLY punched the bully in the mouth instead of being the one that was always getting punched just seemed to give the team such an energy.  They seem to believe they can beat pitt any time despite the roster challenges.  

I just really hope ZT doesn't waste downs by running in to a pile early when the defense is keyed up, which will consequently put Burow in 2nd and 3rd and long situations.  That plays in to their hands.  They need to greatly limit negative plays.  I believe the defense will be energized and ready for the steelers with Chido manned up on Johnson and everyone keyed on Harris out of the backfield.  The offense needs to continue the 30-burger parade they have been on with the exception of the Cleveland game.  

In order for them to do that, and not fall behind in this critical game (giving hope to pitt who is probably pretty full of doubt) they need to use those early downs wisely and not waste them. That's my biggest concern.  Need a creative, safe, high % set of scripted plays to get out ahead of them and then play downhill.  

Of course, I am really hoping to see Chase get another deep ball TD.