(11-26-2021, 11:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, I remember that Dolphins game when the Bengals came back down two TDs and two two-point conversions to tie the game and send it to OT.   I was throwing shit certain they were going to blow it and we would lose Burrow.  

Lol, We were so close to blowing it....

(11-29-2021, 05:29 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think that's exactly the case. MB never hardly shelled out for Free Agents, not only for Marvin, but for any coach. Until Taylor got here. You have to think he had something to do with persuading him.

He is saying, and mostly has ways said the right things. He seems to have the locker room, even the last couple of shit years.
Building a nice roster and turning it into a nice team and by nice I mean nasty but good to see. Play calling does seem to be more diverse, and that’s a whole lot of different reasons of course but if you’re going to shitcan him for the bad stuff you’ve got to appreciate the better stuff.
Maybe he’s learning on the job and evolving with this young Bengals outfit. I hope so.

(11-29-2021, 05:30 PM)Tony Wrote: Lol, We were so close to blowing it....

That was the most Bengals thing ever.

I'm not sure the front office is even behaving that differently with Taylor than it was with Marvin. They've always courted free agents. The difference seems to be that Zac is actually convincing them to sign and play here, at least through two seasons. His recruiting ability has been kind of remarkable given that he has had to sell them on teams that won 2 and 4 games. I'm sure the Burrow factor has helped, but it's still impressive.

(11-29-2021, 05:26 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: The team WAS sinking fast during the end of Marvin's tenure. However, Zac has the fortunate to have the Owner pay for free agency to both obtain talent and retain talent. Maybe Zac convinced Mr. Brown while Marvin could not. 

Looking back on things, I think Marvin drug this franchise into the 21st century. He had some FA help early on, but not near the amount we've seen recently. It appears that Zac has drug them into the 2020s. The team should have cut bait with some aging players and rectified that horrible 2015 draft via FA on the oline. To me, that spelled Marvin's doom. It set us back to 2-14 in year one of Zac.

(11-29-2021, 05:26 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: The team WAS sinking fast during the end of Marvin's tenure. However, Zac has the fortunate to have the Owner pay for free agency to both obtain talent and retain talent. Maybe Zac convinced Mr. Brown while Marvin could not. 

I don't think we can know how much of it is Zac and how much is the younger Browns starting to assert themselves.  I think the change is less about total spend and more about spending on free agents instead of paying out old contracts for marginal contributors.  Mike Brown loves paying out contracts and maneuvering for 4th round compensatory picks.

(11-30-2021, 12:18 PM)Roland Wrote: I don't think we can know how much of it is Zac and how much is the younger Browns starting to assert themselves.  I think the change is less about total spend and more about spending on free agents instead of paying out old contracts for marginal contributors.  Mike Brown loves paying out contracts and maneuvering for 4th round compensatory picks.

That's a good point. I definitely think they play a role in it.

(11-30-2021, 12:10 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: I'm not sure the front office is even behaving that differently with Taylor than it was with Marvin. They've always courted free agents. The difference seems to be that Zac is actually convincing them to sign and play here, at least through two seasons. His recruiting ability has been kind of remarkable given that he has had to sell them on teams that won 2 and 4 games. I'm sure the Burrow factor has helped, but it's still impressive.

Or maybe Zac is just better at finding players he wants to run his system. 

(11-30-2021, 12:10 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: I'm not sure the front office is even behaving that differently with Taylor than it was with Marvin. They've always courted free agents. The difference seems to be that Zac is actually convincing them to sign and play here, at least through two seasons. His recruiting ability has been kind of remarkable given that he has had to sell them on teams that won 2 and 4 games. I'm sure the Burrow factor has helped, but it's still impressive.

It is silly to think that an unproven head coach with a 2-14 record was given more authority that a head coach who took the team to the playoffs 6 times in 7 years.  The reason the Bengals started spending more on free agents was that the stadium was half empty. 

And not knocking Burrow in any way, but the Bengal teams that made the playoffs every year were a much more desirable destination than a 2 win team with an unproven head coach and a QB who had never played a single snap in the NFL.

Zac's "recruiting" had nothing to do with it.  It was the money.

(11-30-2021, 02:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is silly to think that an unproven head coach with a 2-14 record was given more authority that a head coach who took the team to the playoffs 6 times in 7 years.  The reason the Bengals started spending more on free agents was that the stadium was half empty. 

And not knocking Burrow in any way, but the Bengal teams that made the playoffs every year were a much more desirable destination than a 2 win team with an unproven head coach and a QB who had never played a single snap in the NFL.

Zac's "recruiting" had nothing to do with it.  It was the money.

I didn't say anything about "authority". The stadium has been half empty before 2019 too, so I doubt that's the whole story. In many past cases the Bengals have flirted with higher priced free agents who ended up signing elsewhere, though not exclusively. Players themselves have cited Zac Taylor's message and/or the growing culture of the team as important elements of their decisions. Here are some Hendrickson quotes, for example:

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/17/trey-hendrickson-reason-choosing-bengals-free-agency/

Vonn Bell had similar feelings. It's the first thing out of his mouth in his initial press conference:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/vonn-bell-signing-with-cincinnati-bengals

DJ Reader cited the chance to play with Joe Burrow (instead of Drew Lock) as a motivation to sign with the Bengals:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/dj-reader-playing-with-joe-burrow-played-role-in-decision-to-sign-with-bengals

These aren't the only examples. Obviously money plays a crucial role; that's not a remarkable statement. But discounting the influence of Taylor and Burrow in this matter requires ignoring what the players themselves have told us. I am not interested in doing that.

To be clear, when I suggest Taylor is "convincing them to sign", "them" refers to the free agents being signed rather than to the Bengals front office doing the signing.

Adeniji playing over Carman. This is all Taylor. I got to give credit that was brilliant move by Taylor. Adeniji hadn't even played all season

(11-30-2021, 02:45 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: These aren't the only examples. Obviously money plays a crucial role; that's not a remarkable statement. But discounting the influence of Taylor and Burrow in this matter requires ignoring what the players themselves have told us. I am not interested in doing that.

Every free agent who signs with any team says the exact same thing.  Yet every year we see free agents sign to play for horrible coaches on losing teams.

It is all about the money.  We can sign players now because the front office is willing to pay them.

Zac Taylor is absolute garbage. This team is so inconsistent and that stems from leadership. They can't win week to week and that is a massive problem. Burrow is already getting tired of it based on body language during 2 pt conversion and end of first half failure during Chargers game. He is a legitimate problem and now with injuries you will see some real failures.

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Feels like just yesterday the Bengals were 5-2.